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VIDEO - Sunk Bertram Discussion

Discussion in 'Bertram Yacht' started by YachtForums, Jan 15, 2010.

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  1. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

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    After yet another viewing what I note are a) there doesn't seem to be a clip of the cockpit interior showing where the stern cleats are or should be, however views from the exterior seem to indicate that those area is fairly intact. b) the massive damage is right at the bow, port side with stress cracking down that side and c) that the seperation of the deck is not at the deck to hull connection except back by the house and d)(which I found particularly interesting) is that most of the delamination shown is of the interior skin seperating; not the outer skin.
  2. tommymonza

    tommymonza Guest

    Well since Henny does not seem to be able to tackle those bouyancy and weight calculations for us it seems i will have to figure them out myself tomorrow.

    Yachtforums administrator you have done a wonferful job of capturing pics off the video before you released it, is there any chance I could have you capture a picture of the inerliner showing the 6 by 12 inch hole where the cleat would have been.

    In the video it is at 5 minutes and 50 seconds from where the first footage is shown underwater,And again at 6 minutes and 16 seconds there is another glimpse of the hole.

    This would be a great help as I think the holes are pretty hard to explain if this damage happened from bouncing across the ocean floor.

    Thank you and once again just wanted to say this is an outstanding website.
  3. Seafarer

    Seafarer Senior Member

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    ...and yet the alleged buoy hit is on the starboard bow! :eek: that's some buoy.
  4. tommymonza

    tommymonza Guest

    What appears to your eye as massive damage is nothing more than numerous layers of fibergass that were used to lamanate the heavly built area from the chine down all meeting and ending at about that area.

    The bottom of the boat is not cored and probably had 12 to 15 layers of 17o8 biaxe glass in the bottom and than 2-3 layers of glass on either side of the core on the hullsides.
  5. Seafarer

    Seafarer Senior Member

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    Not only are you rude, you're very loudly so.

    Frames 5260-5363 of the video show the hawse hole, edges of the cut perfectly intact but trim missing, not a missing cleat and backing plate at that point.

    I will not provide a screen cap, as I do not have the YF logo to watermark it.
  6. Seafarer

    Seafarer Senior Member

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    Nobody is calling the hull bottom "massive damage."

    Your Glenn Beck act is tiresome. Putting words in others' mouths, casting doubt on statements others never made, then demanding they back them up is nuisance posting. If you've got something to say about the boat, come out and say it. Leave the ad hominem attacks on whichever board you came from.
  7. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

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    DK if the buoy hit it, a wave hit it or it spontaneously disintegrated. I've always advocated to simply wait for the evidence. A lot of it is there now with the video. Whatever the cause (I leave that determination to those wiser than I) I'm shocked by the amount of damage given the size of the buoy and the size of the seas depending what scenario anyone chooses. For me, I'll not be recommending the captain nor Bertram, at least until the final judgements are made. I am very curious about what the coring experts make of the outer skin staying in place while the inside pealed.
  8. 84far

    84far Senior Member

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    NYCAP, wasn’t it the outer layers and the core that pull apart (the hulls main strength), the inside looked 'mostly' fine...? It looked like Bertram did everything fine, but it was the materials that had the issues, and thus in question...? Cheers

    Far
  9. Henning

    Henning Senior Member

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    If you can't get my name right, why should I waste my time figuring out your problems? I pointed you in the right direction, now go learn. If you would like to pay pal me $500, I'd be glad to provide you a specific education on it.
  10. tommymonza

    tommymonza Guest

    Whatever I'm out of here.
  11. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

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    You're looking at the stern. Who knows for sure what happened there. If you look at the bow section the remaining outer skin is fairly intact and maintaining shape. It's appears to be the inside that's flappin' in the breeze. You'll also notice that the hull/deck joint went with the deck and broke off below that until back by the house. I'm curious to hear opinions on that.
    Tommymonza, you're a bit new on the block to be barking so loud. Just something to consider. Clean up your language if not you tude. You're dealing with adults here.
  12. N6ERH

    N6ERH New Member

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    Exactly. This boat was ripped to pieces, totally catastrophic. The buoy theory and the high speed stuffing theory alone don't seem capable of causing this much damage. I'm no engineer but I think improper storage may have played a role. Perhaps all these elements came into play at once.

    In aviation we'd just drag all the pieces back to a hangar but most boats get left where they sunk, we'll probably never get a definitive answer.
  13. Seafarer

    Seafarer Senior Member

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    That's all I was seeking. Apparently beyond the grasp of others.
  14. Henning

    Henning Senior Member

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    What storage issues have you seen that can precipitate or add to this type event?
  15. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

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    I believe the divers did take samples, and I suspect a lot of "experts" are looking at this.
  16. YachtForums

    YachtForums Administrator

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    Yes, you are. Your membership has been removed, along with your vulgar posts.
  17. N6ERH

    N6ERH New Member

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    Well, admittedly my evidence is very poor, but this picture of the bulkhead pulled away from the hull made me think it could have been caused by stresses from improper support. This pic is very cloudy but that damage just "appears" to me to pre-exist the accident. I don't have a high degree of confidence in this theory as I never observed it in storage, but this is the pic that got me thinking...

    [​IMG]
  18. jsi

    jsi New Member

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    Well -

    As far as tabbing goes,

    At least in conventional lamination

    "No scuff, no stick."

    And that surely looks like "no stick" to me.


    jsi
  19. Henning

    Henning Senior Member

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    Ok, I see your reasoning. I agree that there are issues with the boat having prexisting conditions, I don't personally think this is one of them as the hydraulic pressure of the incident is a much simpler and more likely thing that popped the bulkhead tapes clean like that (which should not have happened regardless of what broke it), but, who knows...
  20. BUIZILLA

    BUIZILLA New Member

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    this boat was coming apart wayyyyyyy before this incident..