US or Foreign Flag?

Hi,

Keep it non US Flagged if going over there, it will be just another Red Flag vessel and not a flashing light to anyone with a boner against the stars and stripes.

Unless you have a specific reason why you'd flag it in the US, then take it over, there are many a reason to keep the CI flag.

I'd never take down the Stars and Stripes. However since she's already C.I., I can see no good reason to change things heading to the Med. You can always run up our flag if and when you move her to the States. Fact is that our flag is loved or hated, but seldom ignored.

Hi,

Where do you buy those rose tinted glasses these days?

I'm pretty proud of our country. Especially these days. You don't see us burning people's churches, dragging people's bodies through the streets, shooting protesters en masse, stoning women, trying to exterminate whole races, religions or political viewpoints. We stand up when asked to help, and we take our lumps for being the big kid on the block. We do screw up, but we're pretty good at what we do as evidenced by recent history. Anybody think that Bin Laden was treated with less dignity than he deserved? Those rose colored specs are available all over this country, but they actually come tri-colored; red, white and blue.

Hi,

Ed, That is the way you see it from behind the fence of the contiguous 48.

You might be surprised to find when leaving that compound that yours is not a universally accepted vision.

BTW, I think OBL got what was coming to him and there are a lot more who need the same injection.

K1W1 -

We may not always be proud of our leaders and/or their actions, but we are always proud of our country. Surely you can relate to that.

Hi,

Definitely, I am not slagging off or criticizing the past or present Administration.

I am simply stating what I see and hear in various parts of the world.

The long and short is why would you draw unnecessary attention to yourself?

I realize that many parts of the world has a dim view of the U.S. A lot of it is jealousy and much of it is deserved. It's not drawing 'unnecessary attention' to ourselves. It just goes with the territory. When an elephant walks into a room it's hard for him to keep from being noticed. Whenever anyone in the world is in trouble who do they call for help? It's been that way since our founding, and we almost always answer the call. Yes, we get leaders who overstep and over-reach. Power corrupts. But what I sited is true. Have you ever seen an American mob gang-rape a reporter who was in their midst to report on their struggles? Do we burn muslim holy places as the Egyptians just did to Christian churches? Do we vow the destruction of an entire country as several mid-east countries have for Israel and the U.S. How do you think Al Quida would have handled things if they killed our leader? Do you think they would have treated his remains with the respect accorded Bin Laden? More likely how the Samalians treated our soldiers when their Blackhawk went down. We treated his remains with respect, not because he deserved it, but because we respect the muslim world. When we do go to war, afterwards we rebuild those countries. Who else does that? There was once a movie called "The Mouse That Roared". Interesting. We try our best to carry ourselves in a way that should be an example to the world. Yes, we sometimes fall short. Name a country that doesn't. Yes we get some lousy leaders sometimes also. On the up side, they're gone in 4 or 8 years...not 30, and we have a system of checks and balances to keep our leaders from going too far during the time they have. Yes, I'm proud of the U.S. So was most of the rest of the world while they had their hands out. But many have confused our giving nature for weakness and saw it as an opportunity to exercise their greed. Try to name a single nation that we haven't tried to help at one time or another. Now try to name a single nation that has come even close to that record. I'll fly my flag proudly on my home and on my boat, even if it cost more to do it and even if it makes me a target. I sure wouldn't deny this country, which has given so much, to save a few dollars on taxes.

Greetings,
Keep the Cayman flag for the reasons mentioned.
Peter

Asking the Same Question

Hi Guys.
Existing US laws, in addition to recent changes to Transport Canada's Great Lakes Pilotage rules will adversely affect our plans of cruising to Chicago this summer/fall. As such, I am actively considering changing our flag from Marshall Islands (private) to the United States in order to avoid both, the parasitic pilots associations (you know who you are) and movement restrictions placed on us by the Advance Notice of Arrival system.
I am in contact with a maritime attorney as well as documentation specialists, but I sometimes find that I get better advice when I ask the right questions. So, I am looking for some discussion from YF members in order to help ask the right questions.
Let me start by saying that:
~ We are 334 ITC and 212 Regulatory (US) Tonnage.
~The vessel is Duty paid and owned by a US entity.
~Hiring only US crew won't be an issue, as I've typically hired primarily Americans for years.
~We offer demise charters in the US and will continue to charter in the Caribbean.
~We are planning to cruise to northern Europe next summer, but will be strictly for the owner's use.
Bring on the debate...

Where was boat built?

46CFR 67.20(A)(2) Applies in your case?

Thanks Marmot! You are one of the members who I was hoping would respond. I will add this to my questions. The vessel was built in Australia, but I think this may apply http://www.marad.dot.gov/ships_shipping_landing_page/domestic_shipping/small_vessel_waiver/Small_Vessel_Waiver.htm

46CFR 67.20 (a)(2): The vessel is eligible for a coastwise endorsement under 67.19(c), has not lost coastwise eligibility under 67.19(d), and was financed with lease financing.

46 CFR 67.19(c): (d) A vessel otherwise eligible for a coastwise or Great Lakes endorsement under paragraph (c) of this section permanently loses that eligibility if: (2) It is thereafter registered under the laws of a foreign country;


I don't even pretend to be a maritime laywer on the internet so I would call a good one before going too far with this plan.

There was some discussion at the American Superyacht Forum last week about how to create an American charter industry which would allow American owners to build and flag American boats which meet the same build and interior standards as the flag of convenience fleet of large charter yachts. Your plan is a poster child for that campaign and we should carry this conversation further, here and among groups like MIASF, ABYC, and USSA.

I knew I liked you for a reason

I will say though, that 46 CFR 67.19 (c)(2) must be the reason for this waiver program. Otherwise it creates the possibility of an insurmountable conundrum since the definition of the MARAD Waiver, as stated on the first line of the website is "The Maritime Administration, part of the Department of Transportation, can now, in certain cases, issue a waiver of the U.S. build requirement for foreign vessels or vessels of unknown build to operate in the United States as commercial passenger vessels." and then the first requirement of eligibility is "The vessel must be at least three years old". In order to be both a foreign vessel AND at least three years old, you could deduce that it must have been registered under the laws of a foreign country.
OR
Is is possible that the MARAD Waiver cannot be granted to a vessel twice? i.e. A vessel that held a coastwise endorsement and was subsequently registered under the laws of a foreign country.

I'm not a lawyer and even if I was Id pretend not to be! CFR are supposed to clear up red tape, but more times than not makes things worse.

Call a lawyer and also ask if they've helped other clients with the issue. If yes also ask what port is it better to get the waiver from. Logic has it that American waters with more foreign flagged private yachts owned by Americans Would be easier then places that have very few American owned foreign flagged private yachts.

I'll use an UN related example. Rumor has it that NAFTA visa's are easier to obtain in the East vs West Coast border crossings. Might be certain crossings have more goods and people NAFTA purpose crossings. For trucking in the West some crossings are easier over others. So much so they've made port shopping illegal! Driver can get a lifetime ban from the U.S if found port shopping......................

Just a guess that you'd probably need to port shop for CFR waivers, etcetera. Or its probably easier if your mainly in the US to flag your country!!!

The waiver comes from the hallowed halls of Congressional payoffs and the darker recesses of beltway chicanery. Those folks don't know what a port is unless it comes with a check attached.

Congress doesn't pass CFR's. The Code of Federal Regulations (CFR) is the codification of the general and permanent rules published in the Federal Register by the executive departments and agencies of the Federal Government. You'll eventually need to establish that the CFR applies to you via that department of the federal government!!!!!!!

46 CFR part 388
This Small Vessel Waiver Program was put in place so that every one of the numerous applications (which are almost always granted) could be handled by the executive branch (MARAD in this case) of government, rather than go before Congress.