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Tying up

Discussion in 'General Yachting Discussion' started by NEO56, Oct 7, 2014.

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  1. NEO56

    NEO56 Member

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    When I'm tying up to a dock while staying on board, I put the eye end of the line on the dock cleat, so I can adjust the lines for tides without crawling on and off the boat. When I'm staying ashore I reverse the process. Is this acceptable use of dock lines? I prefer a flat coil on the deck of the boat as opposed to on dock where some one, not paying attention, can trip over the line and sue me.
  2. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    Generally a professional will always put the loops on the dock and keep the bitter end on the boat so you always maintain control of the lines from the boat. Also for adjusting at night. The only time it's reversed is if that is the boat's permanent slip and the lines are left on the dock when you go out for the day so you don't have to adjust them everytime you come in.
    Kafue likes this.
  3. NEO56

    NEO56 Member

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    Thanks J, just wanted to make sure I was being nautical. About the permanent slip situation, I was told never to leave the dock without your lines, since you never know when your going to need them.
  4. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    Most boats have the set they leave on the dock, and they also have a travelling set. And, if you go on a long trip you bring both sets.....
  5. Old Phart

    Old Phart Senior Member

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    I dunno
    Dock lines stay at the dock.

    Boat lines stay with the boat.

    It's only an extra set, cost wise

    and saves a lot of energy while docking

    at your more permanent dock,

    especially if windy and busy.

    This works for the average size boat.

    Obviously, the megas do otherwise.

    Helpers always help the situation.

  6. gr8trn

    gr8trn Senior Member

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    I shall try this tomorrow! I like the practical idea of adjusting from on deck vs. on dock.
    Not sure I like all the extra line hanging form the various stanchions or coiled on deck? This seems like a tripping hazard and certainly gets in the way of the boat washers, no?

    But I will try it just the same. My wife prefers mooring line that are all the length of the boat so we end up with lots of bitter end tails.

    Backing into the slip puts us on starboard tie up. We do a starboard bow line, starboard and port stern line, and a fore and aft spring line to starboard.
  7. Pascal

    Pascal Senior Member

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    First, I can't see why anyone would take their home slip lines everytime they leave the slip, it makes no sense to have to reset them everytime. Takes a lot more time, you should have a full set of lines on the boat plus the set in your home slip.

    Eye vs bitter end on the boat is a long debated question which pretty much comes down to personal preference.

    I don't see the need to worry about having to adjust the lines from the boat, if the lines are set up right you shouldn't have to adjust them.

    My preferences...

    Home slip, backed in: I use the eye on the boat for th spring lines so that all I have to do is slip them on and know the boat won't back into the dock. They are the first ones going on. Plus, since they are put on while the boat isn't fully backed in there is plenty of slack to put the eye over t cleats.

    Every other line is bitter end on the boat with a marker (usually a zip tie). Reason for this is that it allows me to work the line on the cleat to bring the boat in perfect position. That's a lot easier than pulling with the eye and then risking catching a finger between the eye and the cleat. A sure sign of inexperience is someone trying to pull a boat standing on their two feet holding the eye instead of working the line of the cleat.

    Another sign that screams "amateur hour, stay clear" are guys who back into a slip and first secure the bow lines (or stern lines) before the springs...

    Transient slip or dock: I usually set the eyes on the boat since I never know whether someone will be on he dock to grab the lines. Using the bitter end on the dock allows me to throw the line on the dock to catch the cleat and then doubl the line back to the boat. This way, the lines can be secured without leaving the boat. Once everything is secured I get on the dock and put a hitch on the dock cleat for safety. This also allows me to release all the lines from the boat when we leave instead of risking the boat being pushed away by a gust of wind while on the dock...

    Using the eye on th boat also works well with pilings either to double up the line back to the boat or to set a large loop using a bowline

    One final trick... I NEVER set the lines on piling over th hooks typically set high on the piling but tie so the lines are more or less horizontal at mid tide. This way, as th tide goes up or down, the angle change is minimal and the boat doesn't move much whereas if the lines are set high on the piling as the tide goes down, even the 2 to 3' we have here in so fl, will move the boat and make the line too tight.
    captainwjm likes this.
  8. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

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    Every docking situation is different, so be prepared for all. I spliced 3' loops into my lines so they can easily go over most pilings. I don't like the push-through loops that many use as the line can jam. I also will generally put the loop end on the boat and send the bitter end to the dock. Going the other way does create a tripping hazzard on the deck and also leaves a dirt circle on your deck, or you have lines hanging from your rails which leaves you looking like a sailboat or tug. The main reason I do this however is that, you'll often find a closed end pipe or such to tie to, and the dockhand may not know what to do, or some docks just have a short post that a loop can easily slip off. Every dockhand knows how to do a cleat knot or clove hitch.
    Now on large yachts which only go into large docks things are reversed. Then it's generally the loop end going to the dock.

    As for which line to put on first when entering a slip, again every docking stiuation is different. If I come into a slip with a strong cross current or wind I'll want to get on an aft-spring first my stern doesn't slide into my neighbor's boat. If the wind/current are coming out of the slip I want my stern lines set first. Wind/current into the slip? Forward running springs.

    I agree with keeping one set of lines set on your home dock, and a 2nd for travel. If you're on a floating dock life is easy. Set all lines tight. Tide doesn't matter. On a fixed dock where you're dealing with tide (assuming you're docked stern-to) I'll set my home lines at a mid-level. Then I'll adjust forward running springs at high tide so the boat won't bang the dock. I'll adjust my aft running springs at low tide so the boat doesn't hang up.

    Depending on the size of your boat, what I find convenient for home lines is using a single line on each side running from the dock to an eye tied in for the aft cleat, then to a clove hitch at the piling, and then down to the bow where I'll make a bowline loop. I'll generally suppliment these with a pair of aft springs when I'm away from the boat in case high winds hit.
  9. Caltexflanc

    Caltexflanc Senior Member

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    I like having lines made up with eyes two or three times larger than stock. When we stopped cruising full time and were coming back to a home dock (floating), we kept the lines on board; and in the case of the key spring line, left it rigged on the boat. That way if there was no one at the dock to help, we could just drop that line on its dock cleat. A 56MY Hatteras has a lot of freeboard so getting lines set can be tricky with no shoreside assitance on a floating dock. The boat (we were set up to go bow in) could be kept tight to the dock with on engine in gear in idle, and someone could then get off and take the bow and stern lines.

    You never know what sort of help you are going to get from those on the dock. So when cruising we always preferred passing the eyes and telling whomever what cleat to put them on and do the adjusting ourselves.
  10. Perlmudder

    Perlmudder Member

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    When working or docking a big boat, with 3 or 4 people on lines, we always sent the loop to the dock so that the crew could adjust lines as we were docking. On smaller boats (53 carver) I am always docked at home starboard to. Springs stay on the dock cleated, so that I can just slip the loop over the cleat on the boat. Bow and stern come with me. However since I am always the only person crewing, I have to dock and tie up by myself, so there is no good way to tie the bow unless you have the bow line coiled on the boat, and the same for the stern. We always keep a second set on the boat.

    This is what I have found works best for me. If I had someone else to help me dock, I would think about changing that, but solo on a boat that size it is the only efficient way to do it. Also, when casting off it allows me to free the bow and stern, then shift the boat forward and aft to take off the springs while being beside the starboard companionway door so I can run up to the fly bridge to leave the marina.
  11. Ken Bracewell

    Ken Bracewell Senior Member

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    Perlmudder -And then there was the oddball cluster at Portage Landing!!! Putting 145' of boat on 50' of dock, utilizing really long lines and dolphin pilings all over the place.
    Happy birthday, by the way
  12. GFC

    GFC Senior Member

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    Pascal, I'm curious about your comment.
    " Another sign that screams "amateur hour, stay clear" are guys who back into a slip and first secure the bow lines (or stern lines) before the springs..."

    IMO I think a prudent skipper should do what best suits his needs/practices when using his home slip. When using a transient slip, it could make a big difference.
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  13. ranger58sb

    ranger58sb Senior member

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    We put the spliced loop on our two bow and two forward spring "home" lines at the pile, and then adjusted those for length by adding another loop for the boat cleat using a bowline. It was more work to adjust for length with the running end on the pile...

    OTOH our two aft springs have the spliced loops on the boat cleat, and we did the adjustments with the running end at the pile... mostly because those piles are much easier to reach. We don't actually need aft springs most of the time, but it's handy storage and I can quickly temporarily repurpose these to forward running springs (to a cleat in the cockpit) when returning single-handed and stern-to our slip. Usually, once I have one of these on, I'm docked. If wind or current is moving me out of the slip, I can use the as a normal aft spring instead, and I'm docked.

    Stern lines are usually spliced loop on the boat, running end on the dock, crossed... but this is due to a special circumstance because of the way our transom dinghy mount works. When the dinghy and most of its mount isn't onboard, we change so the spliced loop is on the boat and the length adjustments are at the dock cleat.

    And then we have a full set of traveling lines... where the situation rules the day. Usually it's a spring line on first, then whatever... Most often that means spliced loops on the boat, with lines around piles or cleats and back to the boat.

    -Chris
  14. Pascal

    Pascal Senior Member

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    Yes, obviously if you have wind or current pushing the boat back out of the slip, you will want to tie the stern lines first as the spring lines won't do anything,

    But in most conditions, light winds or a bit of breeze pushing the boat in, the bow lines are totally useless and will not prevent the boat from backing into the dock. Yet for some reason I see that happening all the time, transient or not. It s fun to watch... Results in a lot of running and screaming, pushing and fending off, while a single pair of lines would have done the trick.

    There used to be an empty slip next to us used by transients. Over half woudl first set the bow linens while the breeze woudl push the boat bac
  15. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

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    Dockings can be almost as amusing as boat ramps. I find that one of the sure signs that entertainment is coming is when I see a wife on the bow with a boathook in hand.
  16. AMG

    AMG YF Moderator

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    You are right, and last year I used a camera at one such event, but can not show it in public I am afraid. But I can tell that after the lady was launched, the captain took a big lap around the bay before he returned to the wet wife at the dock... :)
  17. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

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    ROFLMAO. Were it my wife I'd need to find another bay...one a long, long ways away.:rolleyes:
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  18. ScrumpyVixen

    ScrumpyVixen Member

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    Yep, having the wife and kids help usually adds to the chance of it going pear shaped.

    We used to fish a lot, so I got pretty handy at getting in and out of the berth (twin diesels, no bow thruster). A case of fenders out, being gentle with the sticks when its calm, and confident when there is a cross wind, plus one or two guys to tie off quickly. In a strong breeze, as long as you get one line on, you can hold the bow or stern. Got pretty good at it.

    Anyways, one day I have the wife and 2 young kids. Sunny calm day at marina. On flybridge, sunnies on, feeling good, looking good. Wife on the nose in charge of the bow lines mid ship line. I head down cast off stern lines, head back up, she casts of the bow lines, kids start screaming, she says all clear and heads back to the screaming kids. I kick her into gear, we move fwd, then stop, I look down and the ship line is still on. back to neutral. Wife shouts that one child has been sick, I race down to drop the line, knock the std engine into gear reverse without realising it, boat idles back into the wharf (minor ding to the marlin board) before I can get back up.

    Get back up, neutral, look the wharf, and the guys who run the marina are just laughing at me.

    A ding and the carpet needed cleaning. They never show that in the boat brochures.

    Ask the wife to
  19. SFS

    SFS Senior Member

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    Wonder what the rest of the post was going to say...
  20. NEO56

    NEO56 Member

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    When backing into a slip, I always cross my stern lines (port stern line to starboard cleat, and verse visa) I did this for a newbie at the Duck Key marina (poor guy, bought a 55 ft. Sea Ray, and took his family down there, didn't know how to back a boat down...and looked so lost, I felt sorry for him... after a dozen attempts, I told him to pull up to the finger dock...GENTLY, and I jumped up on the bow, and docked the boat for him) he didn't even know how to turn his electronics off! Once his Family was off I crossed his stern lines, and he asked "Why do you do that?" I replied..."I don't really know...but it looks nautical." It was my understanding that they acted like spring lines at the stern, and to help keep the boat from getting slammed against the finger piers during a non friendly boater throwing a wake. Is that correct thinking? I was hoping that someone here was going to divulge that information so I wouldn't have to.
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