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This is the boat I'm looking at buying

Discussion in 'Chris Craft Connies, Commanders & Catalinas' started by DouglasL, Sep 24, 2015.

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  1. Norseman

    Norseman Senior Member

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    :(Easy math really: You are the only buyer.
    Buyers market for this tub.
    Offer $25k.
    So what if you pis off the owner?
    Is he going to sell it to some other guy for full price..?
    (Yes, there could be another nut-case with a hard on for classic old wood boat that nobody else in their right mind would want, but the odds are slim to none and slim just left town.)

    When I bought my classic Wood 44' Bermuda Racer yawl back in 1985 in St. Thomas, folks warned me not to do it.
    I knew better of course and did not listen because I was in love and I was stubborn.
    Bought the boat for $30k, put $30k into it and sold it for $30k three years later.
    Worked my arse off with upkeep and maintenance but I was 29 years old and could deal with it somehow. Had a full time job on the side, but most of my time and money was spent on the boat. (Horny wife and unlimited rum helped with the restoration project)
    Would I do it again?
    No, too much work and wasted money.
    (The boat sailed good and looked good and won the 1957 Bermuda Race and all that but life is too short to maintain a 50 year old wooden Rolls Royce)
  2. Kafue

    Kafue Senior Member

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    Man, that is too funny!
    I think many of us could seem this way to normal people.
  3. ranger58sb

    ranger58sb Senior member

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    Ummm...

    You might want to replay that first part back to yourself.

    Eyes wide open: this boat, and all the various related issues, will cost you a $boatload$. If you've got a $boatload-plus$ to spare, enjoy.

    But you might also compare your expected future intellectual income (enjoyment) derived from "cruising or just entertaining at the dock" on this boat to that you'd likely derive from doing that with any other decent boat that's already in the neighborhood.

    Said differently, if it costs you $300K (whatever) to buy/move/start to maintain that boat, is your enjoyment going to be significantly higher/greater than if you bought the first next-door $300K boat that you like? Is your enjoyment level going to remain that much higher after your second year of wood maintenance? (That's another "If so, enjoy.)

    And then... will the boat thank you for moving her to salt water?

    -Chris
  4. Capt Ralph

    Capt Ralph Senior Member

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    I did the same on an old gas Chris my self. After years of bringing back the wood and fat toe rails I had to sell her.
    About the same as purchase price (maybe less) but after many, many paychecks and hours went into her.
    2 hours after the sales ink had dried, she lost a plank going up the river to her new home. The fire boat came on side with pump and saved her but it was sad & not pretty between me and the new owner.

    I try not to even work on a wooden boat now.
    They may be pretty, but better belonging to somebody else, on a far dock aweigh from my boat.
  5. ranger58sb

    ranger58sb Senior member

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    I should have added my comments were meant neither to persuade nor dissuade. Simply offering other ways to analyze the problem for yourself in your own circumstances.

    -Chris
  6. DouglasL

    DouglasL New Member

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    @ranger42c point well taken. No worries with me. I take all opinions as a learning experience. I wouldn't be asking if I knew everything about this potential purchase and pitfalls on owning a wooden boat.

    Everyone is here to help.
  7. wayneCCC

    wayneCCC New Member

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    Douglas, having recently gone through what you are contemplating I hope my opinions can be of some use to you. Once the decision was made to get a nice size cruising yacht, we looked at everything available all around North America. We spent countless hours touring boats from San Diego to Vancouver and realized we couldn't be happy with just another plastic boat.

    Although there are some wonderful classics at good price available on the Great Lakes and Florida, transport to the west coast was just not practical. The northwest offered some great choices and we found an original owner, 1970 57' Chris Craft Constellation in Portland Or. All of the doom and gloom opinions have not been my experience at all. I know this is because we knew what to look for and what to run from. That said, much of our boat is as the way it was delivered in 1970. I just replaced the original hot water heater at a cost of about 900 dollars, and am running the original generator, appliances, 871 Detroits, heaters, etc.

    The positives have been even better then expected and far outweigh the negatives.

    In my opinion, As far as a fair price, comparables to this would probably be around $100,000 from everything I saw, and do sell in their local markets, eventually. The transport costs and fact that it is gas, would make me look elsewhere if I were you.
  8. Norseman

    Norseman Senior Member

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    The same happened to a boat I was looking after in Florida, a Crocker 46: She sprung a plank sitting at the dock.
    4 bilge pumps and good batteries was not enough to save her, she sank over a 6-8 hour period. Shallow dock, but enough water to put the engine and electrical panel under while sitting on the bottom at high tide.

    As for a classic cruiser:
    Here is one in Florida that can be had for free, come and get her:

    [​IMG]
  9. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

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    That's the going price for most wood boats these days except for the museum pieces that are kept with love and a wide open bank account. Being the last owner of a boat is a nightmare. They're expensive to get rid of and hugely expensive to maintain (or become a life's work). It used to be that the last owner would just drive them up a river, beach them and walk away, but municipalities have tired of picking up the tab. Most are now researching the ownership and hitting the last owner with a bill that lets them know that as expensive as scraping would have been it pales by comparrison to the bill for recovering and then scraping (and the bill eventually ends up as a lien against their home).

    P.S. That looks like a boat I saw a video of once as it was being hauled. As she was lifted in the straps the boat split in the middle and fell to the water in splinters.
  10. Norseman

    Norseman Senior Member

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    Here is another one: A 50' Classic Wooden boat with gas engines.
    This one for sale on eBay, current bids around $5000.

    [​IMG]
    View item:
    1961 Chris Craft Constellation

    End Time: Oct 1, 2015, 12:12:28 PM EDT



    Sent from my iPad
  11. chesapeake46

    chesapeake46 Senior Member

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    The description is so full of understatements that I had to laugh.....

    " Currently used as a Full-time Liveaboard, ( who did NO maintenance ) it is floating ( barely )and operable with all creature comforts. ( ... needed for a college kid ) This Antique, Classic wood "Connie" has damage topside from rain water intrusion ( Rain water intrusion is polite for ROTTEN WOOD ). This boat is a project boat for the right person ( nut case ....See above ). Engines run great, have low hours, port engine has been replaced about 6 years ago and boat is in operable condition( so long as you go upstream, into more shallow water ... ). Recent survey found she needs to be hauled, repaired and painted ( just that simple......). Estimates on repairs vary depending on how far you want to take it and whether or not you have it done professionally and is mostly labor. ( no skill needed, estimates vary, could be based on the # of cases of " Git Rot " needed...... ) Recent safety inspection completed ( but we ain't gonna show you the results because you'd soil yourself ). Vessel has been shrink wrapped and winterized every year. The seller is being forced to sell by the marina where he has a slip since they are no longer allowing wooden boats. ( go figure )
    Boat is being sold AS-IS, WHERE-IS in Colonial Beach, VA 22443. Owner can assist in having vessel moved to a boatyard that can haul this boat for you and allow you to work on your boat in their yard making this a great Do-it Yourself project. "

    That being said, I love wooden boats. Just about everything about them. It is a sickness. You may not see the forest for the rotten trees in the way.

    One thing I do not think anyone has asked you, just assumed , is, will you have the boat professionally maintained or will you be doing it all yourself ? If you have the money to keep it by a professional, the opinions may differ.
  12. Norseman

    Norseman Senior Member

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    20 mins left on the auction, you can still get it.:D
  13. Norseman

    Norseman Senior Member

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    This is another Woody: A 62' Italian motor Sailor I owned briefly:
    They yard gave the boat to me for removing it. Lots of un-paid bills and storage charges.
    I kept the aluminum spars and SS rigging and sold it to another wooden boat owner with rotten wood masts and booms, then demolished the hull and had it trucked away in dumpsters.
    Great boat back in the day.



    [​IMG]
  14. DouglasL

    DouglasL New Member

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    Ha, ha. You guys came a knocking today. I'm not up for a "fixer upper", just looking for something that is ready to go from the get go. But hey, even new boats break a thing or two.

    I know it will cost money to maintain this particular boat. I'm just trying to get to a fair price. I hear those of you with the $25K and $50K offers, but, I'm sure we would not take that unless we really needed the money. But if we did, we would not be keeping the boat under a roof and off the water in a marina. We'd go get a cheaper, out in the open, in the water slip.

    I'm wondering if this gas powered boat is fairly priced between $60K and $80K?

    Douglas
  15. olderboater

    olderboater Senior Member

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    Fair to him, not fair to you. You will have greatly overpaid once you transport it since you're saying no to land transport. You can repeat those numbers as many times as you want. If you were buying it to use where it is, they would probably be fair. But "landed price" is what matters and landed in LA it's way too much.
  16. DouglasL

    DouglasL New Member

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    @olderboater I believe you're so correct. We'll find out if the seller comes down about 50% from his current asking price of $145K.
    I've seen some sellers, and brokers, price boats 100% higher, knowing that someone will come with a 50% offer; when in reality, that's the original price that the seller wanted.
    Buyer thinks there're getting a great 1/2 off deal, when in reality they are paying a fair or sometimes, higher than market price.
  17. Capt Ralph

    Capt Ralph Senior Member

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    I think everybody has tried to talk you out of a wood boat, with gas engines and the expense of moving her.
    You still have a hard on to do this.
    I have 2 questions;
    What drugs are you on??? AND,
    Why are you not sharing them with the people trying to talk sense in your direction?

    After 12 years, were still trying to keep up on a '78 plastic boat. 10 years with a nice corporate paycheck.

    Did you win a lotto and desperate to spend it all on a non returning investment? You would do better buying the worst negative stock on the market...

    I would feel better about people and you if you just stated "April Fools".......
  18. Norseman

    Norseman Senior Member

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    Found another picture of the Italian boat mentioned above.
    Wooden boats has a life span of 35 years or less in Florida, more so in colder climates.

    Down to the cast iron keel, sold it to a scrap dealer.
    20,000 lbs.
    [​IMG]
  19. Susan Hopkins

    Susan Hopkins New Member

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    I am so glad I joined YachtForums. I am sailboat shopping and knew nothing about wooden boats. I came here to do research. After reading this thread, I will never touch one in a million years, no matter how beautiful and cheap it may be. That includes free.
  20. HTMO9

    HTMO9 Senior Member

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    I am in the early stage of building a replica of a very famous historical sail boat, most likely (or better hopefully) with a cold moulded wooden hull. For this project, I have tasked a very capable naval architecture bureau to evaluate the pros and cons of different hull materials and building techniques for this replica. They came up with a 150 page opinion about and how to do it.

    We are evaluating (means, we are trying to understand this pamphlet completely :)) but I do agree with their opinion, that a wooden hull needs far more care, far more craftsmanship to build, repair and maintain than for example a GRP or metal boat. Always less yards can handle this great material for a long lasting hull. Here in Europe the craftsmanship is fading away with the retirement of their old workforce.

    Without the time and skills and / or the financial resourses for the above mentioned higher expectations, especially in warm and humid climates, I would personally stay away from any older and preowned wooden boat too. A wooden project would even scare me away.

    I am a member of several foundations for the preservation of historical boats and ships. We had to abandon several wooden projects because the "wreckage" was far beyond any repair. If wood is eaten up by time, bugs, humidity or salty water, it needs to be completely replaced, otherwise it will infect the remaining good.

    I love wooden boats, the older, the better but this time I want to build a boat that will outlast me for sure. So we want to be **** sure, to choose the best and most authentic building material and building method. Lets hope it can be wood.