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San Lorenzo problems & issues - building a new yacht?

Discussion in 'SanLorenzo Yacht' started by Brow66, Nov 13, 2017.

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  1. Brow66

    Brow66 New Member

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    Hi, I came across a discussion on another forum. I found it very interesting but I am still kind of puzzled about the whole thing. I'm inclined to think with others in that thread that the thing is real but kind of shady at least. I am pretty curious how the whole issue is evolving.

    http://sanlorenzo-sucks.com
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 28, 2017
  2. YachtForums

    YachtForums Administrator

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    This thread was posted on Nov 13th and soft-deleted by our mods, awaiting further verification. After taking appropriate channels (and back channels), the thread has been reinstated. People should be made aware of this, especially from the builders who favor "style over substance". It's this sort of ethic that deters people from building a new boat.

    This is one of the reasons our last review of a SanLorenzo was way back in 2008. At the time, I was frantically trying to build an archive of reviews before the magazines discovered the internet, so we were filling in with boats we hadn't covered. After spending an afternoon touring two SanLorenzos at a press event in Riviera Beach, we took them off our coverage list.
  3. Iknownothing

    Iknownothing Member

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    I did a lot of warranty work for Sanlorenzo and other Italian builders.

    Rule #1: "is nor-mall-E!
    Rule #2: blame the captain and crew
    Rule #3: is not warranty, is maintenance
    Rule #4: parts are on order, but it will take 3-4 months before we ship

    Italian yards all use subcontractors, it's very common to see an electrician wearing an Azimut shirt at Ferretti, Riva, Sanlorenzo, etc.

    I looked at the pics on the linked site, tons of duplicates, few nitpicky, but mostly par for the course.

    They really seem to struggle and suffer with the semi custom stuff in my opinion. When change orders pop up, that's when things start to get hacked to bits to make it fit. The notched out aluminum and cut panels in the pictures is fairly normal, as well as form over function.

    My favorite when dealing with them was a bed side lamp not working in the owners stateroom. Rybovich had 2 carpenters spend a day to get access to the fuses/relays behind a beautiful shoe closet. Took me less than 5 minutes to fix once I had access and then Rybovich had to put everything back together again...
  4. olderboater

    olderboater Senior Member

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    I haven't heard good about Sanlorenzo and haven't been interested in spite of liking some of their styles. However, I still don't think it's fair to lump all Italian builders together. As an owner of two Riva's, I can say I've had no issues and been incredibly happy with both and would not hesitate to buy another. In fact, we manage two more that friends purchased after experiencing ours. So, four in total. Happy with all.
  5. Iknownothing

    Iknownothing Member

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    Rivas can be very hit or miss. Ever see a model with "Super" in the name? That's the version after they fix the major issues. Won't get into specifics but the 44 Rivarama had some serious defects that required a crew of subcontractors from Italy to repair every single one. Aquarivas were mostly trouble free except for the veneered foredecks splitting and requiring replacement. The veneer was so thin that the glue would show up in the grain and looked like sanding dust below the clear coat. The hydraulic Bimini tops were a contact pain due to the proximity sensors failing constantly.

    The boats built in Sarnico were generally pretty good while the ones from La Spezia were usually filled with problems. The first 68 Ego was bought back from the client after they were unable to fix all the issues.

    I wont say I've seen as many problems per boat with Riva as with Sanlorenzo, but in this case size does matter. The 112' SL is inherently more complex than a 33' runabout.
  6. German Yachting

    German Yachting Senior Member

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    A brand that I haven’t heard much on YF is Monte Carlo. They supposedly made their facility in Monfalcone to avoid the traditional subcontractors used in the traditional ship building markets. Anyone have experience here?
  7. Liam

    Liam Senior Member

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    Lol this sentence alone can make all your credibility about Italian yards sink in the biggest oil well in Texas.
    So I ask a question is that what really Super in Riva means?

    You are a nice keyboard warrior as the guy who did the video. Which if checked does have the credibility of a mosquito.
  8. Iknownothing

    Iknownothing Member

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    Well, I was a service manager for Ferretti Group products so I do actually know what I'm talking about. Don't really care if you think I'm a credible source, just sharing my personal experience with the brand.
  9. Liam

    Liam Senior Member

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    And yet you still did not reply the question about Riva's and Super.
    You had a big knowledge of your product.

  10. Iknownothing

    Iknownothing Member

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    Maybe you should explain the meaning behind the Super designation. Obviously you think its something different than what it actually is behind the obvious marketing crap.

    Fact: the Rivarama got the super designation once the structural issues were sorted out.

    Fact: the Ego got the super designation after numerous structural and systems issues were sorted out.

    Purely coincidence I'm sure, but like I said I don't care if you think I'm a credible source.

    If me having first hand knowledge of issues makes me a keyboard warrior then by all means disregard anything I say.

    You can dismiss it all you want but like I said every single Rivarama was subject to a massive invasive repair program. The foredeck problems on the aquarivas are very well known. Feel free to ask anyone at Riva if I'm making it up :)
  11. captaintilt

    captaintilt Senior Member

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    Interesting website and thread. While I've always enjoyed the looks and appearance of San Lorenzo's, I've only delivered a few, and not spent much time on them. The 96' and 106' are 2 of my favorite looking boats, and I know quite a few of the guys at San Lorenzo / YachtBlue here in the America's and they are some of the best in the business in terms of knowing the product and how to fix them, so I can only base things off of that. However, I will say that I've Captained both Ferretti's and Azimut's and from 64' up to the CL100 and I've seen things like the website is referring to on both brands, numerous times. In fact, the last Ferretti that I Captained had a large battery bank for the bow thruster, but no way to charge back the batteries, so it was pretty interesting that the setup was that way, and we eventually had it fixed by Ferretti, but still I think with the market of being the way that it is, it's not going to be uncommon to be cutting corners / costs here and there. Just my 2 cents.
  12. Liam

    Liam Senior Member

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    Now I am not telling what you said about structural issues is not true, I can go to detail on hull nos from which and to when about this.
    But to be correct this is unfair to the owners and also Ferretti Group repairing these under warranty. Most where done this way.

    As for Sanlorenzo, I sold a couple of the old Guidetti fiberglass boats and can only say good words about them. Of the new ownership I have inspected a few and can also add more to that.
    I also viewed the first SD92 some ten years ago so that video if true is a big disappointment.
    I know Perotti wants to expand Sanlorenzo (he is managing so far) to become more productive and efficient without loosing its identity.
    Reducing build times is what can make you challenge Azimut, Princess, Sunseeker, Ferretti Group in taking more orders.
    Personally I am not sure the real Sanlorenzo (what the brand build from the sixties till 2000) fits that profile.

    But hey when you expand and have a couple of loans in the tens of millions to extend and renew your facilities you got to have that program to encourage the banks and investors to jump in.
  13. Alexalex

    Alexalex New Member

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    Woaw! When I search for San Lorenzo yachts, this comes in Top 3 search result:

    http://sanlorenzo-sucks.com/

    If I was CEO of San Lorenzo, I would fix all those issues and make my client happy, cover all costs, rather than having this website working against me each and everyday. God knows how much money is lost / and damage is given to the brand! :)
  14. Liam

    Liam Senior Member

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    Not much since they are having the best year ever in 2018 delivering over 41 boats for this year.

    Also the story behind that build is that it was trusted to a project manager from the owner who ordered all kinds of different equipment and him (project manager) never turning up to fix up things which did not fit.
  15. olderboater

    olderboater Senior Member

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    I know nothing about that boat, but I know of a very similar story with a builder for whom I have great respect. They'll admit the issues. The owner's representative started specifying many items such as high security windows that the builder had never used before. Well, many of the items were delayed and while that happened the builder had the choice of waiting or trying to continue based on what they expected. When items were first installed then, many just didn't fit right and a tremendous amount of work had to be redone. Ultimately, the builder fixed it all but the boat was completed and all in good shape about 18 months later than planned. I love innovation but not at the risk that often comes with it.

    There's a reason Steve Jobs boat took as long to build as it did and ran as far over both time and money budgeted as it did.
  16. RER

    RER Senior Member

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    Not to mention his time on earth.

    I just glanced at the site but I became less interested when I saw it was a third party complaint - Not the actual buyer.
  17. German Yachting

    German Yachting Senior Member

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    Did it really run over time and budget? In all reality, there isn't really much that's innovative about it but more so just a unique design.
  18. olderboater

    olderboater Senior Member

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    Yes, although time and budget were never considered rigid as I understand it. Maybe more fair to say it took longer and cost more than originally anticipated.
  19. Liam

    Liam Senior Member

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    In general builders do not like to take these kind of orders, but if on day three of Cannes boat show you are selling less then expected you take it.
    That is how the market works. The salesman needs his commission and the yard needs to keep the jobs and people working.
    We all know that from 2010/11 to 15 it was not easy time for boat builders.

    Also comparing a Feadship with a semi custom Sanlorenzo 30 meter is a bit apples to oranges. A semi production boat has to make way for other builds, which follow.
    A client of myn bought a used boat from Sanlorenzo and the service they gave him was super.
    Another client of myn bought an old ten year old SL from the bank, one of those leased 72 and he refit the boat with them and the service was also super good.
    So much so that it is impossible for him now to consider another boat that is not an SL.

    Does all the above give change for a shoddy workmanship, no. But hey boats are made by humans.
    Anyways if you do the dock talk in Italy or SoF marina Sanlorenzo captains are always mostly happy about the yachts they helm and take care off.
  20. olderboater

    olderboater Senior Member

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    We actually visited Sanlorenzo in Viareggio last summer. Didn't spend long talking to them as we were there primarily to see AB. At our cursory glance, we were quite impressed by their organization, more so than we anticipated. Similarly, we found them very well respected in Italy, even by their competition. Their business sure has been strong. That said, I am not a candidate for a fully custom yacht, no desire whatsoever, but I would consider Sanlorenzo for a proven hull and semi-custom build. Not currently looking at them, but wanted to talk to them as long as I was there.