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Sailing Yacht A

Discussion in 'Nobiskrug Yacht' started by German Yachting, Sep 1, 2015.

  1. brian eiland

    brian eiland Senior Member

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    Sounds like some of the problems that the railroad fans of this country have when they go to restore some of the magnificent old steam locomotive engines of the past,..ie...
    https://www.up.com/aboutup/special_trains/steam/locomotives/4014/index.shtml
    https://www.movingfullsteamahead.com/content/co1309
  2. brian eiland

    brian eiland Senior Member

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    Looks pretty fragile to me for a free standing mast. Loads are just not spread out enough. I imagine it is going to fail very quickly if the vessel gets caught with full sails up in over 25-30 knots.
  3. brian eiland

    brian eiland Senior Member

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    Last edited: Sep 1, 2016
  4. HTMO9

    HTMO9 Senior Member

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    Brian, that is a very interesting sailing catamaran design. Would love to see the underwater part of that multihull.

    As far as SY "A" is concerned, the scaffolding is almost completely removed and it looks like one or two masts are already loaded with some kind of sail (may be a kind of functional test for the furling mechanizism) but I have no clue what they are doing with the exhaust stack. It looks like, the exhaust deflectors are removed or they can be retracted, no idea.

    The local press reports that the sailing sea trails are suppost to start later this month in the Baltic Sea. After these sea trails, A would return to the yard for the completion of her interior before handed over to her owner early 2017. Never heard of such a building procedure before.

    SY A 01092016.jpg
    SY "A" as of tonight.

    Yacht "A" was only for one day at Kiel with her owner and his family on board. She then went through the Kiel Canal to Hamburg and was moored directly at the St.Pauli Landungsbrücken, one the tourist magnets of Hamburg. The local press is saying, the owner is showing off "A" to to expedite her sale (promoting, of course :)).

    a-in-hamburg.jpg

    "A" at the St. Pauli Landungsbrücken.
  5. Yacht News

    Yacht News YF News Associate

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    It seems, from that webcam photo at least, that they are putting the protective film on the newly painted surface?
  6. German Yachting

    German Yachting Senior Member

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    I still think SY A, along with her little sister, is a great looking yacht.
  7. brian eiland

    brian eiland Senior Member

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    Didn't see any photos, dwgs of underwater, but did find these quotes;

    Here are some more interesting photo type presentations
    http://www.sednav.com/spectrum-61/

    This vessel looks ever more interesting as I review further.
  8. brian eiland

    brian eiland Senior Member

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    I have been trying to make some sense of this Russian owner, but I can't really come up with anything but that he is caught up in this 'Mine's Bigger' frame of mind.
    I don't see where he has any interest or knowledge of boats in his background. It appears as thought he doesn't even entertain onboard to any extent,...why own a vessel (or 2 now) of such a huge dimensions??

    His power yacht, the first "A', I believe came about as a result of the US Navy's initial work on the DD21 Arsenal Ship. Why not built a 'civilian version' of that unique design. Certainly would be a most talked about vessel around the world ! The DD21 became the SC21, and that evolved into the current Zumwalt' vessel design. (The Zumwalt class tumblehome hull is derived from that of the DD-21).
    [​IMG]
    Future_USS_Zumwalt's_first_underway_at_sea.jpg

    [​IMG]

    Rather interestingly, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SC-21_(United_States)

    So now he decides to challenge the sailing side of things. After all Tom Perkins had certainly made quite a big splash in the world with his development and subsequent building of the Maltese Falcon.

    But what an extremely poor effort for someone who has supposedly had the smarts to build this huge fortune of money. I can only think that this guy has been very lucky to have made all that money, by just being at the right place and time in history,...not by his superior intellect or super tech developments, or individual achievements
    He was there at the time the USSR was undergoing some big changes, and he happen to set up some banking deals for another MAJOR Russian oligarch who was already making millions. That took him into the processes that allowed him to make so much money off of the Russian natural resources,...as a few of these guys have done.

    So back to his sailing vessel. Does anyone believe that this thing is really going to be able to sail? Look at the huge windage that this hull design has. And who wants to be on the upper decks or pilot house when this thing heels over? ...not me. ( I recall this similar subject came up as well during the development of Maltese Falcon).

    This boat is a disaster waiting to happen.

    I can only hope that the owner is never able to bring a lawsuit against the shipyard with respect to this ill-conceived design project.
  9. Gage Rowden7

    Gage Rowden7 Senior Member

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    I have read a few articles about this vessel being able to sail... Although nothing has been confirmed yet but we will have to wait and see. It will interesting to see this thing heel!!
  10. brian eiland

    brian eiland Senior Member

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    Have you even seen a sail plan, or a keel dwg???
  11. HTMO9

    HTMO9 Senior Member

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    I do not think, SY "A" is an unsafe boat by any means. It is a full SOLAS yacht with all stability and safety margins as asked for by class. And she will not be unsafe both under power and under sail.

    The question may be, how does or will she perform completely or at least mainly under sail. As it can be seen by these pictures below, her hull is not designed as a performing sailboat hull. SY "A" is a sail assisted motorsailer with some downwind sailing capability but not an upwind or tacking performer. Her hull shape will make her perform best (or may be only) under sail when being upright.

    SY A bow.JPG

    SY A stern.JPG

    If she does not have a centerboard in that shallow keel, she will be a transvers runner or as we sailor say, she will have more wake leewards than on her stern. And as said above, this hull has a lot of wind affected area.

    SY"A" has a total sail area of app. 2.700 square meters or 29.000 square feet. This is about half the sail area of a typical square rigger of her size like Royal Clipper but with more volume and weight. And as a full SOLAS sailing yacht, she will have a heel limiting system, means, if the wind is strong enough to get her going, the heel limiter will untighten the mainsheets or reduce the sail area at a defined angle of heel. IMHO her best performance wind angle will be around plus/minus 45 degrees off her stern but excluding wind out of her dead six.

    And if she ever sails without her main engines driving the wheels, she will be still a generator always boat. Her onboard demands are just to big for using stored power. But I am very confident with her rig, as the Dijkstra boys know what they are doing. This rig would only deserve a better hull as far as sailing performance is concerned. We have to wait and see, wheather she will be a sail eater like Maltese Falcon but I doubt SY "A" will sail as much as Maltese Falcon.

    SY "A" was not built to perform under sail and explore the seven seas enviromental friendly, propelled by the wind. Her statement is extravagance and her purpose is to be shown off. Exactly as her motor yacht sister A.

    One does not have to like her design but she is and will be a milestone in megayacht design.

    Just my 2 (Euro) cents
  12. brian eiland

    brian eiland Senior Member

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    Nice photos of bottom, i don't know of any others, thanks.

    I have seen rumors of Falcon being a 'sail eater', but is it true?
  13. Milow232

    Milow232 Senior Member

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    @brian eiland

    I am shure he is not the only owner with limited knowledge. But like others before he hopefully gets a (safe) yacht that suits to his requirements since he pays a lot of knowledgeable people, so where is the point? ( well having a knowledgeable owner might be beneficial)
    I read he spent quite a lot of time on Power yacht A.

    I find it quite ridiculous that you start doubting his intellect just based on what a radical new design he commissioned and one Wikipedia article. I am amazed how much you supposedly know about this man given the limited information you have. And even if this is true.. many billionaires were at some point at the right time at the right place..so what's bad about it?
    Based on your posts I assume you are a avid sailor so why you do not confine your critical statement on the yacht, something you are more knowledgeable about.
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2016
  14. brian eiland

    brian eiland Senior Member

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    If that is so, I was still surprised to find that apparently he did not do much entertaining of guest onboard?...such a big vessel and such a 'statement', yet not showing it off ?

    I actually tried to do quite a bit more research than that (on the internet), but didn't bother to bring that up here on the forum.

    You are correct, and that is why I only submitted a brief statement as to himself. After all that I tried reading. I could no longer be concerned with the owner himself, but marveled at his stupid effort to out shine a few creative persons like Tom Perkin's (Maltese Falcon) or Jim Clark's (Athena) , etc
  15. German Yachting

    German Yachting Senior Member

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    Does it matter if he entertained much? It's his yacht, he can do what he wants. You have brought up much that why would they get such a big yacht for only two people. Is sea worthiness not a valid reason? The larger the vessel, the less affected it will be by the weather. For the amount of time they spent on it, I feel it's justifiable. Also, why don't you can out Dream Symphony that's in build? That's a pretty evident "Mines bigger" approach based on the above argument. I just think that the owner may be going more for a "something different" approach. If this was only just trying to be the biggest, why not just build a 200M yacht? The owner has the capital to do so.
  16. nmna

    nmna Senior Member

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    Since the delivery back in 2008 the owner had some parties onboard with celebrities like Lenny Kravitz and Demi Moore. Maybe he doesn't like to throw big parties like the owner of Octopus. His money, his rules :)

    About S/Y A, I agree with the previous posts: those "exhaust pipes" look "cheap" (design-related). IMO Mr. Starck doesn't like them either.
  17. Yacht News

    Yacht News YF News Associate

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    Even with the 'revamped' design of the funnel exhaust pipes.... angling away on both sides something like on "Eclipse"... how is this going to stop the mast and part of the sail from being sooted up?
  18. brian eiland

    brian eiland Senior Member

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    Just revisited a little interview of Tom Perkin's creation of Maltese Falcon:
  19. AMG

    AMG YF Moderator

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    Hi Brian, how about staying on this forum and this topic..?
  20. HTMO9

    HTMO9 Senior Member

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    May be if it is accompanied by (additional) very effective (expensive) exhaust gas cleaning. Soot can be cleaned, residual soot can be wiped off (the tail of my Helo is always dirty, despite he is getting washed every time prior going back into the hangar and this is caused by Jet A and not by MDO), heat damage on the carbon masts not. But these deflector pipes will most likely solve most of the heat problem. Those large gensets are of variable speed type. We will see wheather they are compatible with soot filtering or vice versa.

    I have been told, Mr. Stark has a slight hysterical tendency to act like Rumpelstiltskin, if one of his designs has been altered without his approval (blessing). During the build of Port Adriano, he is supposed to have given some great examples of his talents :). And I am pretty sure, he "does not like" these deflector pipes.

    "Ingenious artists, a different kind of breed"

    But honestly and all jokes aside, SY "A" grows on me. I will never like her hull design but this boat has many features, which make sense and will answer its purpose. Things like her powertrain and power generating system, her bridge control and ships management system, the paparazzi safe outdoor areas, etc. And I am looking forward to see her sailing under full sail with this completely new type of rig. The load meters on the masts main bearings will for sure show some interesting (frightening) numbers. And most of all, how they will get her 27 ft draft through that 23 ft deep channel near Kastrup Airport, Copenhagen.

    I wish HDW/Nobiskrug all the best, to get that "beast" successfully delivered to her owner.

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