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Ready to switch from Containerships to Yachts

Discussion in 'Yacht Crews' started by OverAPLships, Apr 24, 2015.

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  1. OverAPLships

    OverAPLships New Member

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    So I graduated a little over a year ago from California Maritime Academy with my 3rd Mates unlimited tonnage license, I've always wanted to sail on containerships. And I have been the past year! It's rad and I love sailing but the sad truth is that most everyone on these ships is miserable. So many of them hate being at sea and can't find joy in things like a great sunset or seeing whales breach. Spending months at a time surrounded by people like that gets a bit old. I know it varies from ship to ship but I feel like I'd like to try something new like yachts before I go too far in this field and look back and wish I had tried something else. It seems like it could be a happier environment to work in. How would I go about finding work on yachts? It seems as though most want previous sea time on a yacht... I don't think a 906' rust bucket passes as a yacht but I suppose I could be wrong. Has anyone else out there made this switch? Thanks for any info guys.
  2. K1W1

    K1W1 Senior Member

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    There are plenty who have gone from commercial to Yachts.

    You cannot expect to waltz straight into a 3rd mates posn on a yacht as not many carry them and those that do want someone who has been on one before for the most part.

    Try to get on one as deckie to get some time and work your way up is all I can suggest
  3. OverAPLships

    OverAPLships New Member

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    Ya thats something else I wasn't too sure about, how are most yachts crewed? Is there just a captain and general "mate" or is there a chief mate and then another 3rd/2nd mate. Sorry I'd look this up but I'm on a ship now in Asia and the wifi is reeal slow
  4. K1W1

    K1W1 Senior Member

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    on a 75m and above to 3000 GT it will typically be Captain, Chief Officer, 2nd Officer then it gets vague
  5. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

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    If you're going to make a change it sounds like you're at the right age. However, there are a lot of major down sides to such a move. Major among them are salary, lack of job security, schedules and difficult career advancement. Starting as a deckie and working your way up is the correct advice, but that'll be a big step backwards for you. You'll be on a par with a lot of kids whose main qualification is that their daddy had a boat when they were growing up. That can be very frustrating.

    Working on boats is a hard life whether you're on a 60' SF or a 900' container ship. Probably the biggest issue is being away from home so much. At least with your current job it's scheduled though. Every job has its downsides. It's why you're paid and it's called a job and not play. It's rough being on a ship where the crew isn't happy, but it's good to be able to keep your job if you're not happy (as long as you do your job). Be in a bad mood on a yacht. and it can easily cost you your job and get you labeled as a malcontent.

    The best advice I can give you is to give the decision serious consideration, and maybe explore the job market during your downtime. Put your CV out there and see what offers (if any) you get, and maybe plan to work one season on a yacht if you can find a position. Don't burn any bridges however.
  6. olderboater

    olderboater Senior Member

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    Those on the ship you're on might have started all bright eyed and bushy tailed. The one piece of advice I would give is to not let them take you into their unhealthy environment or you could end up with their attitudes given time.

    Now perhaps not all containerships are the same. I don't know. I know not all yachts are paradise either. Some are great to work on. Others have unreasonable owners and disloyal, bickering, fighting crew. Some people enjoy the life, some don't. Part of your process might be determining the aspects of your job you like, and the parts you don't like.

    In some ways you are probably very well trained for a yacht and in others have virtually no training. The smaller the yacht the broader your role would be whereas on a large containership at the lower end of the mates your role can be very narrow. More importantly perhaps is that a tremendous part of the job on a yacht is customer service. It is assumed to be a given that crew is capable of doing the technical aspects of the job (although sometimes a poor assumption) but have you ever been in a customer service situation where you had to deal with many different customers, many of whom had very high requirements and were not use to anything less than their expectations being met. Plus you add the owner's or charterers guests to the equation. Then you toss in a very different type crew than you're use to.

    As Erma Bombeck said "The grass is always greener over the septic tank." I think you'll need to do a good bit of self analysis plus talk to some who have made similar changes. I'm sure the job on the containership isn't as you expected in many ways. Neither will the yacht job be. No initial job ever is. That's why the company I grew up in didn't want to ever hire people, especially office workers, for their first job. It was always a let down as they weren't comparing it against anything other than their imagination. But then we always figured for their second job we'd be an improvement on their first.

    Our engineers both spent some time in the large commercial ship jobs but none of our captains have ever worked outside the pleasure boat world, whether deliveries, running sportsfishing charters or on yachts.
  7. OverAPLships

    OverAPLships New Member

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    Hey thanks for all the information, what's the average pay for mates on yachts? I assume it varies quite a bit. Ya if i did try to make the switch I'd try out a yacht during vacation. I've got nothing about being away from home and being at sea, even in my vacation I'm in other countries backpacking around so that's not an issue. And I don't mind doing actual physical work. I worked on tugs in SF bay while I was at cma so I almost feel underworked on containerships. I'd just hate to take a step backwards like you said and be doing deckhand work for years. But the customer aspect could take awhile to get used to as well, I'm a people person forsure but I could see how some of the yacht owners would be as pretentious and arrogant as the captains on some ships haha
  8. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

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    Ah young, foot loose and fancy free. We all remember those days. But once you get into a relationship, especially marriage, that changes and home becomes very important. Especially some sort of schedule, even if it's 3 on/3 off. Wives like to know when they should get their lovers out of your bed. This is the time to experiment and find the right place that fits you though.

    Pretentious and arrogant would be a huge understatement for many guests. People who can afford $100,000 for a weeks vacation aren't generally used to being told "no" to anything. They also don't generally care about the opinions or concerns of those who serve them. That's of course not all, all of the time, but don't ever mistake their smile and kind words for friendship. On a yacht you're there to serve. There's a TV show on cable I've seen a couple of time called "Below Decks" about a charter yacht (in fact there's a thread here about it, although I can't find it through Search). If it's still on you should check it out. Not much of a show, but very telling.
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2015
  9. K1W1

    K1W1 Senior Member

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    And completely off base as to how the business actually is, watch it for entertainment but don't think this is what you will encounter onboard.
  10. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

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    Agree, but it gives insights to types inter-personal relations. One of the hardest things about personal services type work is that you're continually on display. You must keep your moods to yourself. That's not hard for an 8 or 10 hour shift, but when it's 24/7 for 5 or 10 days it takes a certain type of personality You're living in someone else's home and dealing with their guests. We all know that 'fish and house guests start to stink after about 3 days'.
  11. HTMO9

    HTMO9 Senior Member

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    The yachting world in the Med is not so bad in general, as I personally observe it. There are big differences between yachts, especially between sailing yachts, bigger displacement yachts and fast boats. But the biggest difference is made by the cultural background of the ownership and its guests and some paying charter guests.

    I have to agree with NYCAP, people willing and capable of paying from 200.000 up to a million $ a week (plus expences) for a charter boat, may have the tendency to loose contact with the real world and normal mortal people.

    There are still some larger yachts around in the Med with small crew cabins for 3 or even 4 people, no individual bathrooms and being located completely below the waterline.

    On some of those yachts, the fluctuation of crew (below the officer level) is quite high, especially if they are treated badly and not paid well enough.

    On one yacht in my neighbourhood in the Palma harbour, the payment of the crew is lowered, as soon as the yacht is moored :(. On smaller powerboats (mostly non classed Italo made) in the 60 to 90 ft range, you can see crews sleeping in quarters without full standing height and keeping all their belongings in their cars on the jetty.

    But on modern larger yachts built according to LYC or even SOLAS, crew quarters are more than acceptable and most owners / charter companies (except may be my special friends from one or two specific nations) treat their personal very well and on larger charter boats, if paying guests do not behave accordingly, they are not accepted again. The charter companies have a black list of those people not behaving.

    I know of two charter events, where paying guests with very bad behaviour had to leave the boat and the charter was cancelled. On one yacht the female stews were harassed by drunken guests and on the other, drunken males (my special friends) tried to take over the ship :) with little or no success.

    But the term: "A happy crew means a happy ship" is mostly accepted in this field nowadays.

    And if I would get knowledge about such an unhappy enviroment in the crew quarters on one of my commercial vessels as per your initial post, the management level of this ship, would for sure have an immediate visit to my office. The ILO has established quite a good reporting system, as far as treatment of crews is concerned.

    Just my 2 (Euro) cents
  12. olderboater

    olderboater Senior Member

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    In many ways ships, boats, yachts etc. are like any other businesses. One has a better environment or culture than the next. One group enjoys working together, the next group fights and bickers. One group is happy in their jobs, the other is one of the "ain't life awful" groups. Now sometimes the bad groups are pervasive throughout the boat but often there's one person who is constantly stirring things up and impacting the group through their attitude. Contrary to the Jackson Five song, "One bad apple can spoil the whole bunch." Good managers don't let that happen, but all businesses don't have good managers. Similarly, some have reasonable expectations of employees and some are pushing beyond reason.

    The one big difference is you're together 24/7. There is no going home at night. There is no escape. It's like being sent on an extended business trip but then forced to share hotel rooms and those rooms being quite small. Most people have two types of time in their lives. Work and Off. You're either at work or you're off and when you're off you go home and you're free to do whatever you want with your time. This industry has three types of time. Work, Work site on call, and off. I don't consider one to be completely off work if they're on a boat or at a place of employment, if they're half way across the world from their home, if they're not completely free to do as they wish. Typically there is a tradeoff and that is more "vacation" time. Take the 28 day on, 28 day off jobs. Yes for 28 days you're packed on a boat with co-workers, but then you have 28 days in a row of being off and at home. The yacht world in general isn't as good at that. Many yacht owners tend to think that if you're in Antibes for two weeks with no guests, that's a vacation. To me, as long as you're sleeping on the boat, aren't at home, aren't free to go where you wish, that's not being "off." Some yacht owners are starting to look at things differently. Others aren't.
  13. OverAPLships

    OverAPLships New Member

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    so i gather that the room i'd have wouldn't have the queen size bed, couch, flatscreen and bathroom i'm used to but do most bigger sized yachts have single rooms or are you basically always going to be sharing it with other people?
  14. olderboater

    olderboater Senior Member

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    Most yachts do not have single rooms but have rooms with bunks. Then those crew rooms are grouped together in a crew area of the boat. Now the crew area does typically have a galley and lounge.
  15. K1W1

    K1W1 Senior Member

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    Not until you get into the really big boats will you find a dedicated crew galley and with MLC 2006 there are more and more single officer cabins. Satellite TV is often with a preset channel selection.

    You will most likely be in a bunk bed when you first start out and if you feel you are too good to do deck work such as washdowns etc I suggest you stick with the Containerships as a prima donna attitude will quickly get up your work and room mates noses and you will be back on here whinging about your lot in life.
  16. HTMO9

    HTMO9 Senior Member

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    On a full SOLAS yacht, you will have your single room as a normal able seaman upwards with size and composition as set forth by IMO/ILO rules. On larger yacht below 3000 GT, deckhands, normal engineers and stews have double rooms with ensuite bathroom and individual lockers plus working desk. Officers and mostly chefs have single rooms with a larger bunk and ensuite bath.

    Below an example of the crew deck of a nearly 3000 GT yacht from a well known builder.

    crew deck.jpg The balcony is obviously a guest entry and "mostly" used by owner party :). A shell door gives seperate entry for crew on the Bb side.
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2015
  17. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

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    "I don't consider one to be completely off work if they're on a boat"

    I have a very good situation currently. I'm aboard for about 10 days/2 weeks at a time, no other crew and the boss is a great person to work for. He doesn't sleep aboard, so when he leaves I have the boat to myself. Last year my wife came aboard for one leg of our trip, and at the end she said she had newfound respect for what I do, because what people see is that I cruise around beautiful places on a beautiful boat, but the reality is that once the boss leaves the boat I'm still working often to 1 or 2 in the morning taking care of all the little things that need attending to from plotting courses to cleaning the engine room to vacuuming the boat to fixing a clogged toilet or a leaking shaft log. When I get home from a leg it generally takes close to a week before my sleep cycles adjust and I get caught up with my household tasks. So yes, you're always on duty (even if you call it standby or off time) while you're on the boat. Add in charter guests or an owner who sleeps aboard with his family, and it takes a special type of personality to do the job.

    One thing I learned a long time ago is that everyone else's job (and life) looks better than yours, but a job is a job. All jobs have downsides, and some can be pretty bad If not you wouldn't get pay and it'd be called play. Those looking to come into this business shouldn't be taken in by the pretty boats and clean uniforms. Think about what it takes to keep those boats pretty and running, and keeping those uniforms clean and a smile on your face while you're doing it.
  18. olderboater

    olderboater Senior Member

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    Here is the accommodation standard.

    http://www.mlc2006.com/the_convention/title3/3_1/

    As mentioned by HTM09, individual rooms come at 3000GT. Now, 99% of the time we do not require sharing of bunk spaces. We allow crew to use a couple of our staterooms. But our crew cabins do conform to the above guidelines for shared cabins.
  19. olderboater

    olderboater Senior Member

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    Yes, when I was referring to galley on a smaller boat I meant what is typically a small cooking area, at least a microwave and refrigerator. Still meals will be prepared in the main galley.

    One thing boat buyers need to look at carefully too is the number of crew accommodations stated. I'm looking at a layout now that says sleeps 8. Well, it doesn't in most situations. There are two bunk cabins sleeping two. There is one Captain's cabin with a double bed but unless you have a married captain and his wife on board that only sleeps one. Same thing with the Engineer's cabin. So now in most situations you can only sleep 6. And it might be worse. Let's say your crew below Captain and Engineer consists of 3 females and 1 male. Opposite sex's cannot be required to share a cabin. So now you lose one more space and can only sleep 5 of your 6 member crew.
  20. K1W1

    K1W1 Senior Member

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    If this is the statement you are referring to: (a) in ships other than passenger ships, an individual sleeping room shall be provided for each seafarer; in the case of ships of less than 3,000 gross tonnage or special purpose ships, exemptions from this requirement may be granted by the competent authority after consultation with the shipowners' and seafarers' organizations concerned;

    Please note the word in bold case, this will be used to manipulate the regulations till they achieve what the client requires.