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People killed by props

Discussion in 'General Yachting Discussion' started by Pascal, Apr 3, 2018.

  1. Pascal

    Pascal Senior Member

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    wondering what precautions others are taking. Yeah it s pretty simple, dont start the engines when swimmers are in the water but in light of the death of a 25 year old guest in a 90ish charter boat in Miami this week end, it s clearly not that simple

    While the investigation is just beginning, what could the captain have done to prevent the accident. He was sitting at a lower helm, with really no visibility aft. Whether the victim fell overboard or jumped in not realizing the engines had been started doesn't make a big difference as he could have not known. Only one mate onboard, no idea where he was... he could have been at the bow to raise anchor.

    Over the past couple of weeks I ve witnessed two near misses. First was a crew on a 150ish footer I was a guest on who fell overboard at the stern while docking. Captain got it in neutral right away, no harm done. Second was another crew on a 100ish boat I was looking at as they were leaving the dock, she decided to go down to the swim platform to call clearances to the next boat on the Walky Talky. She almost slipped and caught herself in time. There was no reason for her to go on the swim platform as she could have seen just as good from the aft deck.

    I often see crew on platforms while docking or undocking but I can't think of any case where line handling can't be done from the aft deck.

    Personally I don't allow anyone on the platform while the engines are running. Crew or guests. Guests are told during the safety briefing that the platform is off limit while engines are running and the gates are closed. I have had a few cases where a guest will open a gate or step over but with overhead cameras monitored on the bridge I know right away. Engines go neutral until a crew get the guest back in

    So, what else are others doing to prevent these type of accident?

    To make things worst the Captain running the Miami vessel was only 20 years old with a 22 year old mate.
  2. MBevins

    MBevins Senior Member

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    Is it common for someone of that age to be captaining a vessel of this size?
  3. Capt Bill11

    Capt Bill11 Senior Member

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    No. But that may have nothing to do with how the accident happened.
  4. Capt Ralph

    Capt Ralph Senior Member

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    No roll call or horn signals?

    90 footer with 2 operating it?
  5. MBevins

    MBevins Senior Member

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    I wasn't suggesting that. I've never seen someone that young piloting a boat that size so I was curious how common.
  6. Capt Ralph

    Capt Ralph Senior Member

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    Well yes, 20 year old has not a clue about lotts. To start, experience???
  7. Capt Ralph

    Capt Ralph Senior Member

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    Probably never thought about somebody behind the boat before and ASSUMES people will get out of the way.
  8. Capt Ralph

    Capt Ralph Senior Member

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    When I started operating dive boats, instructions and roll call before the engines ever started. I never trusted the guest dive leader (master or instructor) and counted all my self every time before starting to weigh anchor to move to another reef or wreck. Years before that sorry dive movie came out.
  9. captholli

    captholli Senior Member

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    The vessel in question "Miami Vice" has its own web page describing its charter services but I didn't see crew bio's . Its an older 95' Intermarine with surface drives. Tragic accident and a horrible way to go.
  10. Capt Ralph

    Capt Ralph Senior Member

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    Over 95 feet? Needing 100 or 150 ton ticket? A 20 year old has the hours?
  11. Capt Ralph

    Capt Ralph Senior Member

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    I just hoping the media has this data wrong and a real event will be explained soon.
    I am sorry for the loss of life. Uugly incident.
    But somebody has to go to jail, Ben..
  12. Capt Bill11

    Capt Bill11 Senior Member

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    While I agree most 20 year olds may not have the experience needed to Captain a charter boat that size, from what I heard, and that means little, the person went in the water unbeknownst to the captain as he was about to back off the beach.

    Sometimes **** happens that it’s very hard to prepare for.

    Just say’n.
  13. Capt Bill11

    Capt Bill11 Senior Member

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    It’s possible of course.

    For you 100T ticket all your hours/days don’t have to be on a 100T or larger vessel.
  14. Capt Ralph

    Capt Ralph Senior Member

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    Over 75 I think.
    And 4000 HP?

    After my age and experience concerns, What insurance company is going to cover this operation??

    What little is in the media, I do hope the data (age and crew numbers) are wrong.
    One article stated the boat ran aground and the crew was trying to get the boat off.

    Heck, we don't know if it was a real charter or not.
    25 year old victim, could of been the hood kids out for a bit.
  15. olderboater

    olderboater Senior Member

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    We know nothing except a tragic event. We don't know what happened, what circumstances led to it. The loss of life is tragic. The permanent ruin of other lives is likely also and very sad. Imagine witnessing it. Imagine being on the boat. Imagine being the one operating the boat. These are the type horrors that one never recovers from. At fault or not, it's painfully destructive.
  16. Pascal

    Pascal Senior Member

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    The various articles all mentioned it was a charter although obviously we all know how inaccurate the media can be.

    I dont see the boat in the uscg database so not sure what the tonnage is. It may be slick enough to be under 100GT. For the 25, 50, 100 and 200GT licenses, they take the vessel you have experience on times 1.5 then rounded off to the next level... so if yo have run a 35GT boat, times 1.5 is 52GT you get a 100GT license. Run an 80GT boat and you get a 200GT license...

    The reason i posted this thread was to discuss the steps others take to prevent accidents. As mentioned in the oast few weeks i ve seen one crew fall from a platform and nother catch herself at the last second while handling lines.

    As to guests, we often have people partying on board and they require watching. Obvioulsy this captain didnt know someone was in the water but were all precautions taken? We close the stern gates before starting engines and guests are told not to go down if the gates are closed. But we know how memories is first to go after a few drinks...

    I think the boat layout played a role in this accident.
  17. olderboater

    olderboater Senior Member

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    We very seldom have drinking aboard and none away from the dock. Sure eliminates a lot of issues.
  18. Danvilletim

    Danvilletim Senior Member

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    Drinking is absolutely part of the charter experience. That is part of the product that's being sold,to them. Nothing wrong with drinking, but supervision is required.

    That being said day charters seem so much more difficult to control than a term charter.
  19. Pascal

    Pascal Senior Member

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    We don't do day charters any more too busy with other things but it s certainly wilder than term charters.

    That was the point of my post. Whether charter or private with owners / friends partying how do you ensure safety? Crew on the aft deck, cameras over the platform etc

    What really worries me is crew. Today at Staniel I saw two more boats with crew on the platform while docking or leaving when they had no need being there
  20. Danvilletim

    Danvilletim Senior Member

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    I had never thought of being on a platform as an issue...but now I see your point. I think involving the crew on engine startup procedure makes sense..

    The also think 2 crew for a 90 for day charter was inappropriate.

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