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Pandora's box

Discussion in 'Engines' started by Capt Ralph, Mar 6, 2023.

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  1. Capt Ralph

    Capt Ralph Senior Member

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    16 years ago, I replaced the PTO seal on my stb, 12V71.
    14 Years ago it started leaking,, again.

    Been putting it off till it finally started pouring oil out.
    F M
    20200829_201425a.jpg 20200118_173628a.jpg
  2. Capt Ralph

    Capt Ralph Senior Member

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    So, Big asp heat exchanger gets hoisted from over head. New seal AND cam shaft race get replaced.
    So, while the hoses and plumbing are in my hands, lets pop the core, re-seal the weeping H/E gaskets and clean her up.
    All looks good here.

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    Last edited: Mar 6, 2023
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  3. Capt Ralph

    Capt Ralph Senior Member

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    Then, those new hose clamps I installed a few months ago look sad against those old ugly rubber hoses. If It's all apart, lets clean up those ugly rubber hoses.
    Another quick call to my DD shop, another credit card wiped out, new blue silicone hoses on their way.
    Last edited: Mar 6, 2023
  4. Capt Ralph

    Capt Ralph Senior Member

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    New Hoses installed last night and today.
    All purged (dock side).
    Hopefully tomorrow can leave the dock and get the girls warmed up.

    Attached Files:

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  5. Capt Ralph

    Capt Ralph Senior Member

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    Oh, poor lil sweet port engine, that's NEVER been an issue, is feeling lonely.

    Ha, ordered extra gaskets and hose, she will be extra pretty soon also.

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Mar 6, 2023
  6. Capt Ralph

    Capt Ralph Senior Member

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    BTW, That one hose (pic post #5) is 3 7/8" ID.
    Find that in blue silicone. It is available, just be prepared to B O A T*.

    * Bend Over And Take-it
    A great phrase our bud explained to us.
    My credit cards and I have been using this phrase quite often since.
    Last edited: Mar 6, 2023
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  7. cleanslate

    cleanslate Senior Member

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    Your's is a so big!! :D
    Darn CR, you have two of everything to my one.
    I failed the test, what is the PTO ? Is it related to PIA?

    Take it easy CR don't get yourself a Hyena, or whatever you call it. o_O

    Another thing your engines are to clean. They run better with rust , corrosion, and oil leaks.
  8. cleanslate

    cleanslate Senior Member

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    Yeah it looks good. Good job.
    Just got the same belts, picked up two new belts from NAPA- XL- 7328s for my Alt. Got CF-2 oil NAPA #VAL 400 Earl and filters while I was there.
  9. rtrafford

    rtrafford Senior Member

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    I'm going to hijack your thread with a 12-71 question. To de-tune or not to de-tune. The 750hp is really wasted potential for the boat, and 550hp seems to make much more sense.

    Lose the coolers, shrink the injectors...do you have any thoughts on this contemplation?
  10. Capt Ralph

    Capt Ralph Senior Member

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    Power Take Off.
  11. Capt Ralph

    Capt Ralph Senior Member

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    Back off the throttles.
    You can de-tune but you will not accomplish a thing.

    It takes HP to move the boat.
    You want 10 kts thru the water, No matter what you do to those engines, The same HP and fuel consumption is required to move @ 10kts thru the water.

    I used to push for 10kts over the bottom. Easy to DR with.
    Sometimes less than 8kts thru the water, seems mostly faster than 8kts thru the water for that same 10kts over the bottom. With my luck and timing, up hill in both directions.
    Ding, ding, ding totals up to KaChing$$

    Hull speed is around 8Kts thru the water for us.
    Lately, I've learned to slow down more and pull out the calculator when operating offshore @ 8 thru the water.

    But, I can still fight an ugly inlet or run away from a storm.
    Maintain your tune.

    K I S S

    Oh, ensure your air box drain check valves are working correctly. Here you can save some fuel.

    Oh #2, the 550HP has different pistons.
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2023
  12. Capt Ralph

    Capt Ralph Senior Member

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    Questions for you to compare rigs;
    Your 12V71TI,, dry turbo, ZF clutch.
    I'm 12V71TI,, dry turbo, TD clutch.
    Yes, you have larger injectors and larger turbos..
    I got the part numbers around here somewhere.

    Have you figured hull speed for your ship?
    Been doing it? That is the best it gets.
    Do you ever open yours up to blow the gunk out?
    What RPMs are you making?

    Despite the price of fuel, I want another 100 HP.
    This coming fall, I'm just going to bump up the injector heights a bit. Maybe find another 25HP @ 2000 RPM.

    My partner has the 12V71TAs @ 900HP. I can out run him and it tics him off sometimes.
    He is also 75' and could use a lil more umpha in the inlets.
    He wants to go TIAs. @ 950+ HP

    All this power and we mostly just do hull speed.
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  13. rtrafford

    rtrafford Senior Member

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    Ok...

    Im 12v71TI, dry turbo, Allisons. Rated at 750HP.
    I run everywhere at hull speed, typically 1425-1450 RPM at about 10.4 knots. Even if I 9-hole to beat a Maersk into New York harbor at 5am wake up call, I'm lucky to see a neutral 14-14.5 knots with my hair on fire.
    I assume that I'm using around 200 to 230 HP to cruise, perhaps 230 to 250 in weather.

    I lose the coolers, shrink the injectors, and run the engines at a more favorable load, likely more efficiently, and without the added coolers and potential for problems. They're due to be cleaned, so it would make sense to take them off, clean them, and not reinstall...and de-tune.

    Curves suggest that I'd run the de-rated engine at perhaps 1750 without the coolers, and that just seems to be a happier RPM for the engine?

    Or am I overthinking, and there's nothing wrong with loping under the current setup?
  14. Capt Ralph

    Capt Ralph Senior Member

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    YES
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  15. cleanslate

    cleanslate Senior Member

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    Don't mess with it. Leave it alone at the factory settings. All that extra ''cooler'' stuff is there to keep things cool when you are running full tilt, for a long time.
    Nice to have all that ''over built'' cooling for when you run at lower RPMs your 1400/1500 rpms. You probably don't need all that extra cooling / coolers , but your motors will run a lot longer at proper operating temps with out the need to service them as much. Kind of self built cooling insurance.




    I think there is more to it than just running smaller injectors. Other stuff within would also have to be changed out and or adjusted. Nothing is easy.
  16. Capt Ralph

    Capt Ralph Senior Member

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    Even naturals could use air coolers, just no way to plumb it in.
    I often thought about just a 12V71A, Natural with after cooler. Not for performance, just to get that last air into the lung cooled off after the blowers. Maybe 25 more HP but lots more torque.
    The colder the air, the more dense the air, always burns better.

    With out changing the pistons, your always going to use the turbos and need to cool that air.

    If your injectors are not leaking, your air box check valves are rite, your at your best tune.
    De-tuning, changing prop pitch does nothing.
    Remember, the same amount of HP moves the boat at same speed thru the water.
    1/10 Gallon per HP per hour in salt water. 1/2 of that for turbos making boost.

    Now, imagine this.
    A pair of 4 lung JohnDeere 140 HP installed. If the boat weighed the same, you would burn near the same amount of fuel.
    But these weigh a fraction of the Detroits. Yes, at hull speed you will see more MPG.
    Not because the smaller engine loaded well (near max) but tons of less weight.

    Humm,, Less weight..
    No in-laws on board? That BBQ grill still in the laz?
    Over weight dink on top?
    Worn down props.

    Oh, I sent a PM also.
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2023
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  17. rtrafford

    rtrafford Senior Member

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    Factory settings were 12v71T. The engines were rebuilt during prior ownership and dialed up to the higher rating with that rebuild. I do believe the boat requires every bit of 500-550 HP to both cruise, charge, and stabilize. 300 HP is the high end of useful, full time power needed for the job.

    She's a heavy boat, having been built with 3/8" plating. She's 68 feet and perhaps 65 ton fully wet.
  18. rtrafford

    rtrafford Senior Member

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    Thanks. I think I'm returning to comfortable with that outcome.
  19. Capt Ralph

    Capt Ralph Senior Member

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    Final questions (here);
    Dialed up, hu? Explains the Allison clutches.
    What color is your exhaust??
    Do you smell skunk or diesel exhaust?
    Does the exhaust burn your eyes?
  20. cleanslate

    cleanslate Senior Member

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    Yeah, what Ralph said. Use those two handles with the red balls on top on the right side of the helm. That's your automatic de-turners and re-turners.
    There problem solved.:)