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Oil sample results on Zeus Pods on Survey

Discussion in 'General Yachting Discussion' started by TACBULDOG, Nov 15, 2020.

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  1. TACBULDOG

    TACBULDOG New Member

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    Have a couple questions for the group concerning a survey I ordered on a 550 Fly I'm interested to purchase, and the survey results on oil samples.

    Port & Stbd Transmission - Wear metals high indicating possible clutch wear, PQ index number (ferrous material) appears higher than normal.

    Port & Stbd POD Gearbox - High level of water present. Wear metals high indicating possible gear wear.

    Port & Stbd Hydraulic System - test results indicated presence of water, unable to do particle count due to presence of water. Copper level exceeds values for this component.

    How bad is this and what action should be taken by Seller to correct?

    Special Note: PODS were serviced in August 2020.

    Sea Test- Cruising - 21 knts @ 2600 rpm (seems to be in range)

    Top Speed - 21.6 knts @2750 rpm (way off of 30knts &
    3000 rpm's)

    This boat does have a Seakeeper adding 1200lbs will this affect the top end speed, and rpm, or what else could affect speed so dramatically?

    This is a very large purchase for me, your comments would be greatly appreciated.
  2. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    What are the actual numbers in PPM?
    Amount of water in PPM?
    WHO serviced the pods August 2020?
    Were trim tabs used? if so that could effect top speed
    What did your engine surveyor say?

    It's very bad. Water in both pod gearboxes and hydraulic system of both. Very expensive fixes, I'd walk away unless price reflected cost of fixing and then some. You need to talk to local dealer and find out what it's going to cost to fix all of it. But I'd just find another boat I think.
  3. TACBULDOG

    TACBULDOG New Member

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    Capt J
    Thank you for your comments.
    The Oil Sample Report didn't give information about PPM.
    It just listed high water level present.
    The August POD Service was done by a qualified well respected Service Company.
    The Surveyor I hired is the same Company that did the August Service.
    It was reported this Seller did run a ground twice in last 18 months knocking off the same POD twice. I was told it was replaced because couldn't find it.
    During Sea Trail The Captain told me this boat performs best with the trim tabs all the way down, which he did do, but this boat is also equipped with auto trim tabs.
    The Surveyor wanted to collect all data and then discuss with me today.
    When I asked the Captain who had 5 years experience with this boat about top end speed and rpm being way off, he said you can pick up 3-4 knts when the props and bottom are clean. We had the boat out of the water everything was clean, boat paint had another year left, props had a little prop speed left other than that it was clean.
    I have been in contact with 8-10 Prestige's Owners with this same boat with Zeus PODS Top Speed all get 3000 rpm and 30-32 knts, in Sea Trail we got 21.6knts at 2700rpm. Something is off, we got 21knts at 2600, which is ok for cruising.
  4. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

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    It sounds to me like the August service was done in an attempt to get clean levels and that previous scheduled maintenance (including new seals) was ignored. Check previous maintenance records and sample results and/or walk away.
  5. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    Given what you told me, I would walk away. There could be more issues with the hull from running aground. The water levels in everything are going to be expensive to fix. You are buying yourself a very expensive problem child. Go find a boat that isn't abused and run aground twice and doesn't need the pods and steering system for them totally rebuilt.
  6. MBevins

    MBevins Senior Member

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    One has to wonder about an owner who runs aground at cruise speed twice in 18months. The advice to walk is probably warranted unless they can produce a full range of service / repair receipts going back to the beginning. You still need to allow for cost to put it right in the purchase.
  7. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

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    What I suspect is that in one or both of those bottom strikes the mounting plate was damaged and not replaced. What I wonder about is what that captain has been doing for this boat the past 5 years.
  8. TACBULDOG

    TACBULDOG New Member

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    I did get more information after my post. The first owner did knock off the same POD twice that was 5 years ago, and the bottom plate was replaced. The current owner of the last 2 years has never had a POD problem, and had a Captain maintained the boat on a weekly schedule. The water in the PODS were 1.24 & 1.37 ppm. According to the Owner of Survey company, which is also the only Zeus Service Co in the area told me these levels of water can be found in all Zeus PODS and wasn’t a concerned. Can anyone confirm this amount of water is normal or not?
  9. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

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    That all sounds like good news. What did they say about the RPMs at WOT.
  10. TACBULDOG

    TACBULDOG New Member

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    Selling Broker sent me pictures from last year showing the gauges of this boat at 3000 rpm and 29.5 knts. The Sellers are going to pull the boat, replace the trim tab zincs, and clean the props, which they claim will make the difference in top end speed. Then another Sea trial with me on board to prove that it does make speed and rpm at top speed.

    Sellers sent me the survey when they bought the boat at 250 hours February 2019, now this boat has 430 hours still I would consider a very low hour boat. The iron and copper metals seem to be the two most common metals to analysis. In most cases when comparing the current survey to 2019 survey metals reading are better than 2019. I was told by the Owner of the survey company, another bench mark to review are the metal readings close to the same om both PODS and Transmissions, if they are he said this is a indication this normal wear. After reviewing the current metals reading they are very close between PODS and Transmissions.

    I'm going to reach out to Cummins and Zeus and see if I can find someone that can tell me if these readings are in line with a 430 hour boat or not.
  11. f3504x4ps

    f3504x4ps Member

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    What is the reason they are selling the boat with only putting 250hrs on it?
  12. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

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    Would you ever trust the answer to that question? My guess would be that the drop in speed and RPMs figured into the decision.
  13. f3504x4ps

    f3504x4ps Member

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    Agreed, But I would still ask the question. I would never accept an answer that 1ppm-3pmm of water in a SEALED drive assembly is ever acceptable. Salt water or fresh water will take out bearings and internal components with corrosion.

    Prestige 550 has lots of room and a nice layout, but that's the only positive about that boat. I look into the 550 4 years ago. The dealer was adding 110volt outlets and other misc items and had most of the boat interior panels off, They were flimsy, used cheaply made bent aluminum brackets. You could see the drop light through the hull side when on. It is a price point boat and for the price used around 900k to 1.2mill if feel their are just better quality used boats in that price range. Also light weight will get tossed around too much.
  14. TACBULDOG

    TACBULDOG New Member

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    The only reason to sell that was conveyed to me, decided to buy a smaller cruiser boat, due to fly bridge too hard to access for this couple.
  15. TACBULDOG

    TACBULDOG New Member

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    Found out from Mercruiser - Zeus Div. POD information on oil sample analysis. There are no websites or published data that could be shared, only verbal information. They don’t look at metal readings at all, only water percentage. Very simple measurement below 1% water in POD is Ok, anything over 1% is out of their tolerance and recommend seal replacement. When I asked how water gets in the POD, answer - around shaft is the only way.
  16. Scott M

    Scott M Member

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    TACBULDOG....the musical chairs of owners, history of grounding, Zeus pods (discontinued), and several red flags makes me very nervous for you. It is difficult to walk away from an emotional purchase like this...but that might be the smartest choice. Best of luck and hope all works in your favor.
  17. tusindtak

    tusindtak Member

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    Scott M,
    Hi there. Are Zeus pods not being manufactured anymore? I have heard a few references to this, but nothing definitive yet. Thank you.
  18. Scott M

    Scott M Member

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    I thought the was the case, but cannot find any confirmation on line. Therefore, I withdraw my comment. Can anyone else confirm if Zeus Pods are still being supplied for new builds?
  19. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

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    I have to think if they stopped manufacture there'd be mention somewhere. Sounds like rumor.
  20. tusindtak

    tusindtak Member

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    Thank you for the update. Still curious if Zeus is discontinuing. The use of oil sampling is very worthwhile for engines and gear boxes. We used the Cat system religiously on hundreds of pieces of heavy construction equipment. Trend lines can be developed, and look for change. Very valuable and comforting.
    However, to consider the results for a used piece of equipment, which could have had new oil put in recently before a survey, would make the oil sample not relevant to actual condition of the equipment. Good luck.