Discussion in 'General Yachting Discussion' started by Fishtigua, Feb 11, 2021.
I completely agree but you must speak softly or the outboard anarchist will come and brainwash you.
I love outboards but completely agree on the multiplication of issues. The people impressed by a brood of outboards are people that never owned a boat with multiple motors. Historically, this was a compounding issue if the motors were black. Who remembers the old saying... "if you wanna go fast, buy a black motor. If you wanna get home, choose another color".
I was never a fan of outboards but I have to say the 4 strokes are pretty much bullet proof and for the average rec boater will last longer than gas inboards.
are they as long lasting as a diesel? No. But they don’t need to be.
8V71Ns? Cute. Can’t get out of their own way... 4000 lbs a piece with the monster gear box. And add 100 lbs of diapers underneath
If you're running a steel workboat. I prefer diesels over gas outboards, however gas outboards have come a long way and I'd rather have them hanging on the transom than those forsaken gas inboards that you could never reach anything on, were always breaking etc.
Things evolve and as a boater I stay aware of the evolution in propulsion. This is just one and more will come. Under 40', Stern Drives dominated recreational boating while outboards had fishing boats of all types and pontoon boats which have a huge percentage of that market. Now outboards are taking the entire market over and it has nothing to do with the 600 hp models but a lot to do with 250-350 hp. They have saved the entry level market. They have made it affordable for those it otherwise wouldn't be.
So now to the larger outboards. Small SF's had priced themselves out of the market and the builders were just building larger and larger. The industry depends on boat owners moving up, buying an entry size and as they can afford to, moving up to the next size and beyond. A 65' SF may be great but not a starting place and even the 40-50' range had been killed until recently by the builders as they were turning it all over to CC's. Were it not for outboard powered CC's there would be nowhere for fishermen to start, no first boat to buy. Then all those who buy and don't fish. Well, our smallest inboard is a 44' Riva and we bought it for performance. It's still priced beyond an affordable entry level for many but now there are boats in that range with outboards and similar performance, even if not seaworthiness. Again, these aren't using the 600 hp units but they are using the 250-400 hp motors. We have a 39' Contender with triple Yamaha 300's for our crew to use and they love that boat. It's an incredible day boat. Also outruns our Riva.
Builders move larger and larger and many have deserted the smaller boats. Outboards open entire ranges of boats back up.
What loses out? First, stern drives. Once touted as the best of inboards and outboards combined, I think now they're thought of more as the worst of both. I grew up with only stern drive boats on the lake. I had nothing else until 2012 when we moved to the coast. I realize now they're rapidly becoming an anachronism. On the coast, small diesel powered SF's and others are shrinking as well. Viking saw it by adding the Valhalla line. Hatteras sleeps again and it's sad to watch. Their 45' will remain an alternative to those who just don't want outboards, but there will be a lot of 40-50' boats sold with outboards on them.
I love that these 600's are not just bloated 450's or something but are new designs, new approaches. I'm anxious to see Yamaha's answer as well. I love seeing any excitement hitting the industry as over the next couple of years it will likely be needed.
ehh, yes but dig a tad deeper. Its the parts sales where the real juice is.
and Mercury is proud of their parts!!!!!
Spoken like a dealer with a successful maintenance shop. Autos are getting too dependable for the manufacturers and dealers although they're still trying with "scheduled maintenance."
Autos are getting quite reliable, but they are getting quite complex as well. Despite YouTube tutorials, there are fewer and fewer mechanics, all electrical, all buttoned up. The "scheduled maintenance" seems to more required to be done with a dealer than ever before.
As for Merc V12 600, super impressive in design ethos, this pod drive with two speed trans should be a great service revenue for shops that can provide the service. This unit is said to have twice the "scheduled" service interval compared to the V8 Verados. It is impressive to me.
True, the parts margin can be 50-200% higher than the base product at the factory level and keeps the dealers happy as well. That said, poor reliability and expensive maintenance costs are a common product/business killer. I’m sure Mercury/Brunswick isn’t mimicking the print/cartridge model either. It’s likely the engine / drives business has higher fixed costs and is also harder to flex on the variable side than boat manufacturing but also drive much higher margins with volume. Therefore the boat businesses had at least a one strategic pillar to provide a baseline demand level for the engine business (kept the lights on) and third parties drove the profitability once the fixed cost were absorbed by the internal customer. The larger boats with non Brunswick engines must been a constant discussion at the board level as the approach was antithetical to the core strategy.
haha. Well I have discovered over the years which was of much surprise to me that that they do not make as much as I thought on the actual engines but really treasure the parts business. this is not exclusive to Mercury at all. This is the wholesale/ manufacturer part of the chain I am referencing.
Well, the standard Verado service schedule is every 100 hours (oil/filter, fuel filters) and a more major service every 300 hours. So extending the oil change interval to 200 hours isn't terribly hard to do......
Spotted this Formula sporting four Merc V12s. At 1260 lbs each (a total 5040 lbs), it's equal to hanging an F150 off the back. Couple this weight with the torque of four V12s spinning 8 props and one has to wonder how long before they twist themselves off the transom?
So you hang an F-150 off the back and we'll hand four 600's and let's race. lol
Last spring I made a drawing of our Delta 60 Open with triple V12, folding balconies and a Jacuzzi instead of the Volvo diesels... Maybe fun, but not with our fuel prices...
Feeding 48 cylinders can’t be cheap. Best measured in gallons per minute?
Feeding and maintenance for those 48 hungry cylinders; Dollars per second??
Agreed Ralph. Mercury should be heralded for innovation, but I tend to gravitate toward simplicity... especially with multiple motors.
Yesterday I helped a 65 CHB with 6 450 Mercs strapped on the back tie up.
I was running math, I'm thinking close to 100gph to run that bad boy, and that's not a top end. Yikes !
Crudely, 1/10 gallon per hour per horse power.
450 hp roughly 45 GPH at max hp.
Figure at fast safe cruise between 300 to 350 hp per engine.
30 gph x 4 = 120GPH
I'm guessing it is turning some speed so the MPG may still be tolerable.