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Mercury V-12 600HP Verado outboard!

Discussion in 'General Yachting Discussion' started by Fishtigua, Feb 11, 2021.

  1. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    Of the ones that failed on a few of them the maintenance was way overdue. Another one the owner previously like in 3 years earlier ran over a reef with the boat and had a volvo shop replace both props and output shaft, but a gear now sheered in the lower unit. The others I didn't know the previous maintenance, was just hired to run the boat to the yard for the repair. They go through a lot of abuse when someone is just jamming the joystick around at full tilt and starts switching directions. There are added bonuses depending on the boat they're installed in to having them over shafts.....
  2. Slimshady

    Slimshady Member

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    Owned a 39 seavee with 600 ips, built for me and sold with 1100 hrs 4 yrs later. Boat was great, volvo ips system was terrible, constant issues with the motors and lack of qualified mechanics in SF. Will never own a volvo product again and that includes their heavy equipment.
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 20, 2021
  3. olderboater

    olderboater Senior Member

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    Volvo IPS has carved out a sizable market for themselves. They're a popular solution in the 40-65' range and even higher. Yes, larger outboards will impact them some but at the same time they're growing larger in sizes so gaining some at their upper end. I don't see brands like Princess, Prestige and Sunseeker trading IPS for outboard. I do see brands like Sea Ray adding it but they never used IPS and they'll add it under team orders. Initially it will most impact the CC and SF breeds as well as some performance boats like Formula.
  4. mapism

    mapism Senior Member

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    That's essentially down to two main reasons:
    For boatbuilders, it allows significant savings. On one hand, in terms of hours and workers competence experience required to fit an IPS package vs. shafts installation. And on the other hand, VP pricing policies are very aggressive (i.e. attractive) for builders, since they know that every IPS installed is for them a cash cow for the years to come.
    The second pretty obvious reasons is on boaters side, many of which are scared by docking, and the whole joystick/maneuverability factor has its appeal.

    On top of that, IPS does allow for somewhat tighter engine rooms for any given boat size, and while this is actually a minus for any boater with some experience, it's a pro for both builders and prospects, because the correspondingly larger living spaces do sell boats at boat shows.

    Another factor that VP used to stress a lot (though not so much anymore, since proven to be incorrect when properly comparing apples with apples) is the much lower fuel burn.
    I guess that's another point which might sound attractive, particularly to newcomers.
  5. mapism

    mapism Senior Member

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    As much as the only way they could sell me an IPS is OMDB (i.e., over my dead body), I agree with you.
    A successful product it is for good, that's undeniable.

    In a sort of ironic parallelism, many forumites here get upset when I mention that Azimut is the most successful boabuilder of the planet, but that's as undeniable as IPS success.
    And as it happens, their boats are also in the OMDB category, for myself. ;)
  6. ChiTown

    ChiTown Member

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    Given the sales numbers IPS is certainly a success to date as far as VP is concerned, although this is without looking into their financials/Product profitability. One must also surmise that VP was looking for a way to sell more engines and creating a drive system that would make docking easier on the 40-60' range segment (plus create a smaller systems package w/maybe better fuel consumption) would seem a winning concept. It takes away a lot of concerns to true newbies or folks transitioning up from a 30'+ boat with duel power but small props and not loving the slow speed maneuverability an wrongly thinking it would be worse with a larger boat. Plus they now sell an engine and a drive and a control system, creating 40% (WAG) per boat revenue, plus years of service parts, plus more total installations. For new boat buyers a very good value prop, for experienced OO's , captains and fleet maintenance folks, et al. Not so much. In a way also similar to Brunswick, a good strategy limited by poor execution with Brunswick's performance seemingly being the worse of the two.
  7. olderboater

    olderboater Senior Member

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    Very fortunate strategy with the decline of inboard outboards.
  8. ChiTown

    ChiTown Member

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    Yes, agreed. Although it does make me wonder to what degree Brunswick foresaw the decline in I/O’s as they were the answer for the power head limitations of outboards and the drag and packaging issues with shafts for smaller boats. Once they were able to develop over 400 hp in an outboard package without having to use an automotive block they had to know it was a matter of time for I/O’s to lose a lot of their market share/applications. Chicken or egg.
  9. HTMO9

    HTMO9 Senior Member

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    I personally have problems with petrol powered outboards (of any size). And honestly I also have problems with liquified gas on board of my boats. All of our boats in the family are strict Diesel and Kerosin only. And with Diesel, I mean EN 590 Diesel (automotive diesel) for enviromental reasons. We have changed the outboard engines of our SOLAS Rescue boats and smaller tenders to the 50 HP Yanmar Dtorque engine. Works for its purpose very well. And we are using VP I/O Duoprop drives on the bigger tenders. Corrosion on the I/O drives is not our problem, as those boats are kept out of the water, when not in use. For the smaller fully inflatables (toys for kids) we use Torquedo electric outboards.

    And I bet, there will be bigger diesel or electric outboards in the future, as I am not the only one being afraid of those gasoline bombs in our boats.
  10. Pascal

    Pascal Senior Member

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  11. mapism

    mapism Senior Member

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    I can imagine that you are even more against gas cooktops, then.
    'Fiuaskme, the possibility to make some spaghetti at night in the total silence of a nice anchorage (i.e. with no genset noise) is one of the things in life for which a small risk of exploding is worth taking! :D
  12. HTMO9

    HTMO9 Senior Member

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    You are totally correct, that includes of course gas cooktops. With a decent battery bank and good sized inverter, You can make Your pasta with an electric cooktop (even on a smaller boat :)). The last time I made pasta on one of my boats myself was more than 35 years ago. Today my Genis are 4 decks below and not audible on the owner deck and my chef is a much better cook than me.
  13. Pascal

    Pascal Senior Member

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    I don’t want propane on board either. All electric... including the grill. Down here we re almost always on genny because it’s too hot anyway.
  14. mapism

    mapism Senior Member

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    Ok, I was talking of human size boats, where even the quietest genset is still audible.
    That said, if your chef doesn't prefer cooking with gas, I'm afraid that my wife if a better cook than him/her! :D
    Just check out the cooktops which most starred chefs prefer to work with.
  15. HTMO9

    HTMO9 Senior Member

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    I am familiar with the fact that most chefs in restaurants cook with natural gas cooktops. But this is low pressure natural gas in a well ventilated inviroment and not butane or propene liquid gas bomb bottles on a boat.

    On bigger boats :), a well equipped galley has 400 Volt, 50 Hertz, 3-phase AC cooktops and grills. For a limited group (guests and crew) with pre planned service times, electric cooking works very well. This is not restaurant type cooking, where cooking with gas is quicker and more precise timing wise, when You can not plan the amount and the arrival time of Your guests.

    But back to Diesel outboards. There are several larger diesel outboards available on the market up to 300 HP. They are a bit heavier than their petrol brothers (about 100 kg for an 300 HP Diesel Outboard) but they last about 4 times longer, use less fuel and they far less dangerous !!!!

    Cox Diesel.JPG

    The Cox diesel 300 HP Outboard engine

    OXE Diesel.JPG

    The Oxe 300 HP outboard engine
    Dtorque_full_right_1280x1280-1024x1024.jpg

    The Yanmar Dtorque 111, 50 HP Diesel outboard engine. Weight 115 kg with the torque and thrust of a 70 HP petrol engine. The first two diesel outboards above are based on outomotive engines and the last one has a specially developed twin piston diesel engine. This engine is suitable for any tender of 17 ft LOA or bigger. My crews love them. Very reliable, low fuel consumption, very quiet and smooth running for an diesel engine.

    torqeedo1003c.png

    The little electric Torqueedo outboard engines with integrted batteries, we only use for little fully inflatables (Honwave T38-IE3) mostly as toys for the kids. They run on one battery load for about 2 hours. That is enough playtime for my children or a crew member visiting a friend on yacht in the neighborhood.
  16. jeduardo

    jeduardo New Member

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    Cox 300 torque=479 lb.ft weight=866 lbs
    Mercury 450R torque=439 lb.ft weight=689 lbs
    OXE 300 torque=492 lb.ft weight=871 lbs
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2021
  17. HTMO9

    HTMO9 Senior Member

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    That would confirm what I said. Higher torque than a compatible gasoline outboard but about 100 kg heavier. Boats of that size can take that additional weight on the stern.

    Below an typical example, where diesel outboards would be perfectly placed.

    Munson 65.jpg

    US based company Munson Boats. Btw. they have built a 65 ft expedition boat for Mr. A of R :D.
    This landing craft with a few little changes on the wheelhouse assembly would make a perfect tender for a larger shadow or explorer yacht.
  18. Minnow

    Minnow New Member

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    Sea trialed the 50 Formula with quad 600's, impressive acceleration, very good transition to plane with almost imperceivable bow rise on acceleration (without the use of tabs) and smooth shifting dockside. The two speed gear shift not really noticeable unless you are looking for / anticipating it. (very weird to not see the motors turning in high and low speed manuvers)
    gr8trn likes this.
  19. gr8trn

    gr8trn Senior Member

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    Your experience seems be similar to the couple of YouTube videos I watched with Mr. Porter doing a walk through and quick spin.
    I got a kick out of one of the YouTubers who was highlighting how many times he said "Fantastic" as Mr. Porter was giving him the tour, I think he got up to 19 or 20 "Fantastic" proclamations.
    What is your take on the fact the the drive is pivoting rather than the engine block? That seems to be good for stability/rattle reduction/smoothness and so forth.
    Also I was unsure if the drives can be tilted up out of the water?
    Not sure I want to go MSRP on that very nice Formula 500 SSC. But I do like it.
  20. 993RSR

    993RSR Senior Member

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    For the record I hate outboards. Gas, 3 or 4 times the issues (# of motors) alarms going off and powering down, cowling flying off at speed and all that weight hanging on the back of the boat. I just don't get it.
    Recent sea trial in a 43' boat with 4 400 Mercs one motor would not power up and the other 3 could not get her up on plane. Give me a 8-71N with a dry stack.