Discussion in 'Hakvoort Yacht' started by hrosetti, Jun 23, 2014.
I think this comment clarifies so many things, on so many different levels.
Don't see anything about a Hakvoort.
Again, Honest Abe comes to mind.
Irrespective of the science of all this, I just cannot understand why someone doesn't get that if you take a measurement (or to say it more accurately, if you determine the location of something) from point A, then determine the location from any different point B, the "direction" the item moved is completely dependent on the location of point B!
Therefore, discussing the "direction" of movement under such circumstances is meaningless. The only way to rationally characterize the movement would be under conditions where only the item moved. If you change the point of reference, the second measurement in no longer valid relative to the first.
Question for Capt. J: Assuming that the very forwardmost point on a boat is the tip of the bow. When you add an extension to the stern of this boat, does the tip of the bow move forward? This is a yes or no question, and I would appreciate a yes or no answer.
Yes, if you are looking at the boat from the stern.
So the one part of the boat that, by definition, could not move any farther forward, is now farther forward, even though it did not move? How can you get any farther forward than the tip of the bow?
And by the way, I don't know what type of boats you skipper, but all the boats I've been on did not determine fore and aft based on which direction you were looking. Forward was always toward the bow of the boat, and aftward was always toward the stern. Maybe I've been misinformed. If so, I suspect I may not be the only one.
That is a poor solution driven by cost cutting measures or poor advice by project consultants, especially if there is not a reliable fuel transfer system or functioning desalinator on board. There are better ways to allocate fixed equipment to gain the desired results (efficient trim angles) as you operate the vessel. Takes some preplanning.
For example, are cardboard silhouettes, of before and after, abutting the same wall and perpendicular to said wall?
For example, is someone swinging an arc touching the tip of the bow to demonstrate position before and after extension? Where will the tip of the bow be, allowing a better view, while I enjoy my lunch?
What is your problem..?
Well Mr. Expert, what else would you logically put in a cockpit in order to make it heavier on a boat that never had a cockpit? You only have so much depth between the cockpit floor and the bilge. Are you going to move all of the ships batteries back there and run Cables all of the way to the engine room so they can get a saltwater bath? What other logical means would you use to make a cockpit heavier on a motoryacht that is feasible? Do you have any idea how much bouyancy a 10' cockpit adds to the stern of a motoryacht?
The stern is considered the starting point, if you move the entire vessel foward with a new stern and 10' of length, then the entire vessel must move foward including the bow. Let me re-phrase that, if you move everything in front of the starting point 10' forward with a 10' extension, then doesn't everything move forward? Forward and aft is a direction.
I'm not talking about moving the vessel. It takes a propulsive force of some kind to move a vessel forward. One cannot move a vessel forward by adding a new stern and 10' of length , so I can understand why you need to rephrase something.
Moreover, the rephrasing didn't help. You cannot be MORE forward on a boat than the tip of the bow (I know, bowsprits, submerged bulbous bow projections, etc), and yet you answered my earlier question with an affirmative - that adding a stern extension moves the most forward part of the bow more forward that it was before the extension, when it could never BE more forward than it was. It was already as far forward as you can get on a boat.
Someone in an earlier post said something about being the bigger man in a situation, and that is a philosophy I adhere to, so I will do my utmost to refrain from further posts in this thread. I'm sure that will make many folks happy. I don't think anyone is going to change anyone else's mind on whether the CG moves forward or not. The definitions of forward are simply different.
I thank everyone that responded to me specifically and posted to the thread in general, it was a fascinating discussion. On this 4th of July, I celebrate the freedom that allows us to have a open marketplace of ideas and opinions like this one, and I thank Carl and the admins (AMG being an important part of that) for their support of this site, financial and otherwise.
Happy 4th of July everyone, may it be safe, and happy, and if you so desire, spent on a boat.
Well that a good first step, you have learnt that forward and aft is a direction, now all you have to do is learn which is which. Simple stuff really
Thank you and all the other YF members for participating in this thread, that has now stalled and should be closed so you can celebrate the 4:th of July without distraction.