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Importance of maintaining “dynaplate” style ground plates

Discussion in 'Electronics' started by incoming, Jul 6, 2022.

  1. incoming

    incoming Member

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    Seems like opinions are all over the place on these grounding plates and I’m trying to figure out what to do.

    here’s my situation:

    last haul-out, I noticed one of at least 2 external grounding plates on the hull was corroded to almost nothing. I asked the yard to replace it before launching. I just had my first visit from a diver since launching at the beginning of May and he said the plate is still missing.

    Long story, but I’m not in a position to return to the original yard to get them to do what they were supposed to do in the first place.

    There are about a dozen green ground wires that run to this plate.

    how important is this to get addressed immediately? What are the risks? Seems like 1) I may see more rapid deterioration of my zincs and 2) possibly I have less protection from lightning (this seems highly debated, at least in sailing forums)

    Benefits 1) and 2) above are significantly reduced by fouling that is basically unavoidable since you can’t bottom paint the ground plates

    Based on the above, I’d think I could just wait and do this the next time we haul out for a different reason? I’m sure something will come up in the next 6 no to a year.

    Since it appears to be through-bolted, it doesn’t seem smart to have a diver replace.

    boat is a Viking sport fish with 12v, 24v, and 110/220v power systems
  2. Capt Ralph

    Capt Ralph Senior Member

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    Question, Is this really a Dyna-Plate or a big zinc plate you are asking about?

    The Dyna Plate makes for a great electrical contact with the water. Not a smooth surface but like open cell foam. Usually made of better bronze.
    This grounding makes for a great Di-Pole effect for SSB transceivers. Also dissipates other electrical noises.
    On out Bert, We have 2 original plates that seem to be still like new condition 44 years later.

    When living around marinas, our zincs could last yearly to just a couple of months.
    When a new neighbor backed into the next slip, You could near exactly determine when your zincs would need to be replaced.

    So, if your zinc plate was to be replaced, maybe it was and already burned off.
  3. incoming

    incoming Member

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    I don’t think this is a zinc. I have hull zincs on the transom as well as shaft zincs. The zincs tend to be mounted with an external nut that allows you to remove and replace them in the water, as they are sacrificial.

    This appears to be a grounding plate, which is through bolted to the hull. There is an identical plate on the other side of the boat which has not corroded at all.

    I don’t know what caused this plate to corrode to almost nothing when the other plate is fine.
  4. Capt Ralph

    Capt Ralph Senior Member

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    New boat to you?
    If you have a bunch of wires going to it and it burned away like a zinc, you may have a problem device leaking current to it.
    I don't think I have ever heard of a Dyna-Plate burning away, even after a lightning strike.
    Do you have SSB on board?
  5. motoryachtlover

    motoryachtlover Senior Member

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    The plates that you are referring to are they under the hull kind of near the engines? So you are not talking about the rectangular zinc on the transom. Ralph and others will be able to explain this better but Viking and or MAN has a somewhat different bonding system than other boats. My MANs have no engine zincs. the only zincs I have are on the transmission coolers. What this means in your application I don’t know but hopefully someone can pick up where I can’t and help you. On my 1995 Viking I had my whole bonding system redone as I was told it needed addressing. Not saying this is your issue but be on the look out.
  6. incoming

    incoming Member

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    Yes this is a new boat to me - last October. The missing plate was noted in the survey at the time I bought it, which was why I flagged it for the marina when I hauled it out to have the bottom done. They even painted around the spot (pic attached)

    these are way aft on the hull, just a few feet forward of the rudder posts. Also posting a picture of my transom hull zincs
    D4D8AD32-B781-492D-AE17-1DDD1A17CCEC.JPG
  7. incoming

    incoming Member

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    C7A22B4B-D656-483A-BCB5-7D7F9BD516D3.jpeg

    transom zinc
  8. Capt Ralph

    Capt Ralph Senior Member

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    Well, that is an old Dyna-Plate, and the other is a zinc.
    Never witnessed a Dyna-Plate installed so far back or in such bad shape.

    I would say at one time (or two), some bottom paint with copper/tin was over it.
    If your not using a SSB, I'd remove them, fill the holes properly and move all the remaining wires to the transom zinc plate.
    You may want to inventory where all those wires came from/go to. I still do feel something is not correct.
  9. incoming

    incoming Member

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    I agree I need to either replace the plate or fill the holes. But in the interim, what about just connecting the bus bar over that ground plate position to the identical one on the port side of the boat with a 4 ga cable? Only issue I see is that will potentially ruin that one with whatever underlying problem killed this one…but at least everything will be connected to a ground
  10. Capt Ralph

    Capt Ralph Senior Member

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    Now that I slept on it; I would find out what is at fault first and fix that first.
    Dyan-Plates just don't wear away..
    Dyna-Plates are not sacrificial like a zinc.

    If that's your ships picture to the left; they are probably used for a lightning path.
    So, scratch my idea of removing them, you may consider improving them.

    They should already be tied together.

    Dyna-Plates are not for passing fault current (except for lightning).
    They form the reflective end of a Die-Pole antenna and dissipate other electrical noises.

    Not a ground, Battery negative should not be present on them.
    Not a primary part of the bonding system but may be tied to it.
    Not connected to the gen-set(s).

    Consider this;
    You just spent LOTS of money on your ships purchase.
    Please don't be-little your ship by not investigating all faults and improve the safety of your investments.
    Please consult a REAL marine electrician, show him my notes here.

    Captain Ralph Crapps
    Marine Solutions & Associates, Inc..
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  11. incoming

    incoming Member

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    Copy thanks. I agree there is something going on here that needs to be investigated. I’m wondering if there could have previously been an electrolysis issue that wiped out the zincs and then started attacking exposed brass, etc. But why the other plate would have been completely spares seems like that much more of a mystery.

    I’ll report back if/when I learn more in case someone else runs across a similar problem.
  12. Capt Ralph

    Capt Ralph Senior Member

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    Please do.. :)
  13. captholli

    captholli Senior Member

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    Looks like you have a ground fault on one of the ground wires connected to this particular dyna plate. Easy enough to trouble shoot the ground fault by isolating the individual grounds off of this plate while using a VOM on millivolts positive vom lead on the individual ground wire off of the plate and neg vom lead on a solid ground like and engine block or through hull and this will identify the circuit causing the fault. You then have to start isolating individual equipment off of this circuit until found. The dyna plates porous bronze material was made that way to increase overall surface area for counterpoise or ground plane for HF radio installations. These were generally tied to glassed in flat metallic screens under the helm/ Fly bridge on some manufacturers and normally had 3"copper strap or copper tape in lieu of a round copper conductor due to more surface area of the flat strap. Copper strapping would run from the auto tuner or coupler down to the plate. While this ground plane will make it easier to tune the auto coupler matching the antenna it has zero effect on what type of antenna that's being tuned be it a loaded coil, trap, long wire or dipole, makes zero difference.
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  14. incoming

    incoming Member

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    what reading what I be looking for? Or am I just looking for one that is out of family with others?
  15. captholli

    captholli Senior Member

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    You're looking for a + millivolt reading. Could be slight .004 up to a few millivolts. Depends on the severity of the ground fault. Could be a bleed from Florescent ballasts, small transformers, electric motors etc. these are usual suspects for ground faults on the alternating current side of things. Same holds for the direct current side. Plenty of "how to" concerning tracing ground faults online for you to reference.
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  16. captholli

    captholli Senior Member

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    Many times it's a simple as a wet or flooded junction box.
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