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IMOCA Nexans - Art et Fenêtres burns and sinks after battery explosion

Discussion in 'General Yachting Discussion' started by Pascal, Nov 15, 2022.

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  1. Pascal

    Pascal Senior Member

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    One of the Imocas engaged in the transatlantic race Route du Rhum burned and sank yesterday. Skipper was rescued by container ship

    Battery explosion and fire was the result of a ruptured ballast tank which flooded the batteries. Details in the article

    no idea what kind of batteries they use on Imocas but I suspect some kind of lithium. Gel or AGMs do not explode in an incendiary fashion.

    https://www.routedurhum.com/en/actualite/575
  2. cleanslate

    cleanslate Senior Member

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    Wow, not good.
    We were just talking about this Lithium/Fancy battery thing on another post recently.

    Assuming they are lithium, think it's time for these lithium batteries in cars, boats etc. to be housed in a fully enclosed approved/listed fire box to contain this problem. Not sure if one is out there yet, but some sort of box with one or two intake louvers for, normal use battery ventilation, with fusible link spring loaded fire dampers with in the louvers to close upon explosion and/or fire. Fire damper would spring shut with out the need for electric , DC or AC , and will automatically shut when the fusible link detects the heat.
    Battery wires/cables could be wired to a through bolt connection on the out side of said box , and the batteries could be tied into the other end of the through bolt end with in the box. Think this would make a fire safe tight seal.
    Would also need some sort of engineered removable top to install/remove batteries.

    Insurance companies will force this issue when they get overwhelmed with claims, I'm sure. This is how this stuff gets created many times.

    Just an idea I had. Something needs to be done IMO.
  3. Capt Ralph

    Capt Ralph Senior Member

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    I'm sure some telemetry was coming off the boat during the initial issues.
    Later, an inventory of equipment may be posted.

    From these, we can point fingers better.
    In just a few comments of what had happened, I do fear some batteries got wet.
    But past that, we are wildly guessing.

    BTW, I just ordered all AGM and NOT LI for Bertie's inverter system today.
  4. Slimshady

    Slimshady Senior Member

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    Or we could use lead acid/agm batteries and forget about fires and all the necessary fire resistant containers. I'd sleep better at night for sure. And before the iron battery guys come calling , they too still have significant fire risks.
    cleanslate and Capt Ralph like this.
  5. Lunderic

    Lunderic Member

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  6. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    Have you guys actually read the article? The ballast tank bursts in the morning, the fire is in the afternoon, he puts that one out, then there is another fire the next day. Sounds to me, it's more like fried wiring and he should've disconnected the batteries.
  7. Capt Ralph

    Capt Ralph Senior Member

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    "reportedly originated at the lithium ion battery in cabinet in the salon"
    Sounds like a small handheld battery, not a big house or large bank.

    We are getting these two batteries types confused in our post.

    However, I just ordered new NiCad batteries for my 12 & 18V power tools Also.
    I'm avoiding big and small L stuff.

    Has anybody ever looked at a Lithium mine? Hell opened up.
    And the environmentalist won't talk about that.
    Enough to keep me not supporting it.
    bayoubud likes this.
  8. Pascal

    Pascal Senior Member

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    just read a report from the Golden Globe Race (solo round the world) mentioning the Imoca fire and explaining that this is why they don’t allow lithium batteries in the race

    Yes shorted wiring could start a fire but it will not cause an explosion.
  9. Capt Ralph

    Capt Ralph Senior Member

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    Been thinking about this all day. Imagine a L battery under salt water. It is still volatile, fizzling away. Then the next cell comes up to temperature and expands it's casing, leaking quickly into an under water torch (igniter).
    I can imagine a compressed explosion.
    Flooded cells explode with just a lil amount of hydrogen & other gasses from it's internal thermal issues and ignition..
    A small amount of L, enveloped with salt water, ignited, could make a nice bang.

    Of course, that is my imagination working in the back of a mostly sober state. Somebody prove me wrong.
    Of course, as I type (after 1700), my state of mind has been corrected but I still think I could be close...
    IMAGE0~1.GIF
  10. Pascal

    Pascal Senior Member

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    Again the problem is that you can’t extinguish lithium battery fires with conventional agents. I just read a report of a Tesla going up in smoke and it took 12 000 gallons of water vs 500 gallons for a conventional car fire.

    this is what happened here. The skipper used his conventional FEs but the fire restarted.

    now, I understand that batteries shouldn’t get wet but in the real world it can happen as batteries as usually installed down low in the ER under the floors. I can see how a serious leak could get the batteries underwater. That would be a problem with conventional batteries but a lot worst with lithium catching fire.

    I guess if you re going to use Lithium batteries in a boat, incl MYs, you d have to install them high up in the ER
  11. Capt Ralph

    Capt Ralph Senior Member

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    That electric car that backed into a boat ramp, was pulled out, several minutes later it started to burn. Fire dept could not put it out with the trucks water.
    Most fire trucks do not have any agents to deal with Lithium car fires.

    During the last storm Nichol, A live-a-board (34'ish) snail-boat caught fire while anchored out.
    Luckily, the owner was talked off of the boat before the worst of the weather and was not on board.
    I suspect the wind vane over charged the batteries and started the fire.
    When the fire-boat showed up, they sank the boat in the Ortega river (shallow) to get the flames out quickly.
    There was smoke & bubbles coming from below for hours after wards.
    Battery type has not been confirmed yet, but very good suspicions they were lithium based.
  12. Capt Ralph

    Capt Ralph Senior Member

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    Question;
    Who is going to pay for the extra expense to fight lithium battery fires?
    Who is responsible for these battery fire damages?
    I already know; the whims of the few are already raiding the wallet of the many tax and premium payers..
  13. cleanslate

    cleanslate Senior Member

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    checking /adding water to my 8Ds this weekend . Mine are easy to get to and service. Do it once in the fall then again in the spring. Take about 20 min. or so. I get years of trouble free service from them.
  14. Pascal

    Pascal Senior Member

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    I use lead acid on my boat, easy access and smart chargers. I top them off every two months. I get 4 to 5 years which is the same I get from AGMs on the boats I ve run.