Click for Abeking Click for Apollonian Click for Cross Click for Glendinning Click for JetForums

How is Fuel Typically Paid For ?

Discussion in 'General Yachting Discussion' started by TheAdmiral, Nov 13, 2010.

  1. TheAdmiral

    TheAdmiral Guest

    Hello - Newbie here.. with a Question:

    While outside the USA - be it the Caribbean , S. Pacific, S. America etc.. On larger Yachts, the fuel bill can easily come to over $50K on a fillup of 15K -20K gallons...; Is this simply paid for on a credit card? Do they ever demand cash?

    Is it always priced in US Dollars? or Euros in Europe of course and how do they deal with currency exchanges on large purchases.

    How long does a refueling like that typically take (15K-20K gallons).

    What kind of premium over standard fuel rates does diesel sell for in these distant ports?

    Is there ever more than one filling station company and do they compete on price?

    Please explain to a soon to be 1st time owner. Thank you.
  2. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2008
    Messages:
    11,218
    Location:
    Long Island, NY
    It almost sounds like you're asking if a thief can expect a $50K payday by hitting a yacht. Wire transfers and lines of credit are a beautiful thing and much less vulnerable.
  3. yotphix

    yotphix New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2007
    Messages:
    97
    Location:
    Southern California
    Sometimes by credit card, sometimes by wire transfer but easiest, safest and most convenient is to use an agent like Global Yacht Fuel, based in Ft. Lauderdale. There are others but GYF is the only one I have experience of. If you have planned a trip you can simply contact them and tell them where and when you would like to fuel, and how much you would like. They will work out the price and the payment in advance on your behalf.
    In the 21st century it would be absurd to carry around 30 or 50,000 in cash for something that you know, generally weeks in advance, that you are going to need.
  4. yotphix

    yotphix New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2007
    Messages:
    97
    Location:
    Southern California
    Admiral, having just read your earlier post I should add that if what you think is about to happen is about to happen then who cares how one pays for fuel? There won't be any!
    Are you for real or actually a 16 year old kid in his mom's basement in Ohio?
  5. colintraveller

    colintraveller Senior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2010
    Messages:
    211
    Location:
    scotland
    Or a walter mitty boat owner
  6. AMG

    AMG YF Moderator

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2004
    Messages:
    5,300
    Location:
    Sweden
    It points to New Jersey...
  7. TheAdmiral

    TheAdmiral Guest

    Not a 16 yr old kid but 3 x that age but it doesn't matter, when it comes to large yachts I know about the same yet am soon to get one.

    As for using a Fuel Agent, that sounds like a neat service as long as they are well connected to all ports that you will stop in. Do you pay them up front with a wad of cash ? or just wire it to them first ? How would that work?

    Wire transfers? That can take 2-3 days or longer internationally? What if you are just stopping to fuel and go?

    As for Credit Cards, I just wonder sometimes banks put holds on them etc.. especially on large international purchases. Yes I agree cash is not the best option yet all others seem to leave the possibility for bureaucratic jams and leave you sitting in port trying to unjam it.

    Again , How long would a fillup like that typically take? I would imagine a 15K gallon fill would take at least a few hours. Do you have to radio in advance to make sure they have that much fuel? Is it done by appointment or 1st come 1st serve and you may have to wait several hours or days? Enlighten me please.

    Thank you.
  8. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2008
    Messages:
    11,218
    Location:
    Long Island, NY
    When you're pumping 15K gals. rarely will that be done at a marina fuel dock and that need won't pop up. It's planned days if not weeks in advance so wire transfers or setting up credit lines are no problem. Remember, 150' yachts rarely pop off the dock on a whim like a 20 footer. It takes planning and preparation. I remember Donald Trump once saying, about why he got out of yachting, that it cost him $20K to start the motors. When pumping under 1K gals. you'll pay for that with a credit card, and the banks have very good international abilities to check. Besides, you'll be easy enough to find if there is a problem. There's one marina fuel dock up here that operates 24/7 and they will get pre-approval at night up to at least the amount you might pump and then clear that and charge your actual purchase when done. I heard of them once forgetting to clear the pre-approval and maxing the card which caused major embarrassment and hassles over the next few days, but that's rare. Just in case though you always have multiple cards.
  9. luckylg

    luckylg New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2008
    Messages:
    91
    Location:
    Portland, OR, USA
    Their job is to be connected. This isn't rocket science. They get your order including the port you'll be at and make the best arrangements. Not sure why you seem to be fixated on this transaction but it's pretty typical even in non-megayacht ports like Portland. One call will get you a contact and location for your needs.

    Part of carrying a large bunker store is range. Part is the flexibility of fueling at your pleasure. I get the feeling that you think you'll be "running on empty." If you do, then you get what you deserve. Most captains on this board wouldn't run down to less then 25% of fuel leaving them still plenty of options. On top of that, most captains will be looking for fueling options at the 50% mark if not sooner. As for cash, not too many fueling depots are equipped to handle cash much less deal with calculating exchange rates. Credit cards or an open account with an established fuel broker will be sufficient thank you very much.

    This question has been asked and answered. Please read the replies of those who have already taken the time to answer your question here and in your first post.
  10. TheAdmiral

    TheAdmiral Guest

    Ok Thanks for all that. range is a big issue and as we all know Range and Speed is a non exact science as electricity usage etc makes it somewat unpredicatable.

    If you have a 4000NM range and your crossing 3000 miles plus accounting for GenSet Usage then you dont really have much choice but to bring it near empty do you?

    Would small ports say some of the Pacific Isles be able to refill such a large fill of 15K gallons? or is it a non issue?
  11. Seafarer

    Seafarer Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2007
    Messages:
    716
    Location:
    Hudson River
    Range and speed and gen usage are pretty well documented as part of routine logging. It would be a ****ed fool who plots a course the takes the boat that close to empty.

    If the person can't do simple math regarding fuel loading, they have no business being aboard and their honesty about being a business success is reduced to questionable at best.
  12. ManuelV

    ManuelV New Member

    Joined:
    May 11, 2005
    Messages:
    10
    Location:
    Budapest
    There isn't necessarily a need to run on full tanks. Unless you have a journey which is at the limit of your range, it is considerably more efficient to run with lower weight than however many tonnes of spare fuel give plenty of room for contingencies.
  13. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2005
    Messages:
    13,936
    Location:
    Fort Lauderdale
    The difference in efficiency between having full fuel, and 1/2 fuel is negligable on a yacht or megayacht. The difference I've seen on 1000's of yachts is like 3 tenths of 1 percent maximum. Also, rarely rarely rarely have I ever run a yacht below 20% fuel before topping off. I usually plan to have 30% or more before stopping for fuel. Fuel use is pretty well documented, and you calculate it, just like your distance, and you can be pretty accurate, unless you get in really bad weather and that is why you have a safety margin.

    I would say yachts that take 3,000 gallons or less per fillup don't worry about a fuel broker or bunkering when travelling. They usually will just call the marina they will be staying at and make sure they'll have it. Keep in mind, if a marina sells fuel, they sure aren't going to let you have a truck pull up and undercut them, and pump fuel at their marina.

    When you get over 3000 and are travelling, you'll usually call a broker, or bunkering service. Things are also usually planned ahead of time.

    Then again, most of the fuel I take is bunkered in Fort Lauderdale, even as little as 200 gallons, because it is cheaper, easier and less cost to the owner (the boat doesn't have to leave the dock), because most of the boats I manage are behind a private home. But not when travelling.
  14. travler

    travler Senior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2008
    Messages:
    276
    Location:
    roche harbor wa
    we can carry 54000, us gallons but rearly carry that much we allways plan well in advance on were we are going to re fuel and take on additional stores like every one before me has said you should make arrangements well in advance

    travler