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Green brass.

Discussion in 'Cabo Yacht' started by Jrms80, Dec 3, 2015.

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  1. Jrms80

    Jrms80 Member

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    So what's the best way to clean this kind of thing up. Or do I just "salt away" dry it off and shoot corrosion block all over it and call it a day? image.jpg
  2. Jrms80

    Jrms80 Member

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    Actually that's bronze l think...
  3. captholli

    captholli Senior Member

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    The green stuff is copper acetate and is a natural protectant for your bronze fittings. It's not a bad sign of maintenance but more of an operational environment. I suppose you could do an ask Louise type of thing and mix lemon juice and baking soda and scrub with a tooth brush but unless it really really bothers you I would leave it be.
  4. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    If you want to clean it, you used to be able to find Poco (a mild acid) and it would clean it all off. You could also get a brass wire wheel on a drill and it takes it right off, so does spraying it with corrossion block over time. I would wash your bilge really well with boat soap and freshwater and definately at least spray them with corrossion block, and all of those parts are indeed brass.
  5. Capt Ralph

    Capt Ralph Senior Member

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    I did something stupid long ago. Sprayed OFF/ON onto a pile of green bronze sea cocks.
    I had to run out of the ER and turn the blowers on. Several minutes later when I could breath again, I went back in.
    The tops of the sea cocks were foaming. Using a tolette bowl brush I scrub on them a bit and rinsed them off.
    Bright yellow sea cocks with dark spots, Another spray and more brushing and then all the bronze was bright yellow.

    About a week later, they started there usual bronze color.

    I'm NOT stating this is the correct way to do this. There must be a less potent acid formula to use.

    6 months later, the stuff still looks good without that patina.
    It didn't do much on the oil spots in the bilge, heck of a job on water, rust, bronze and dirt stains.

    I was reminded the hard way, ventilate, ventilate, ventilate, ventilate when using any cleaner or chemical.
  6. captholli

    captholli Senior Member

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    I think that you may need a quick refresher in metallurgy. Those fittings are indeed not "Brass" as the boat would be on the bottom within 12 months.
  7. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    Woops, meant Bronze fittings......the brass wire wheel made me repeat brass instead of Bronze. Left Baltimore, M.D. Sunday in a 50' boat that cruises at 21 knots and am in Jekyll Island, so it's been a lot of hours the last 5 days, cold out, and still have to get to Key West but I do have DPS.....LOL.
  8. Marmot

    Marmot Senior Member

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    Only if the the bilge pump is connected with wire nuts.
  9. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    The Rule 3700 GPH bait pump does have some sketchy electrical connection that is covered with electrical tape and looks like the wires might be just twisted together underneath the electrical tape.
  10. Jrms80

    Jrms80 Member

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    That's for a bait bag system that's no longer installed or with the boat. Not sure what to do there. I'll never buy anther bag for that system, it's got two other on board bait tanks. I do need to investigate the wiring for it and clean it up. I was thinking if I ever install some underwater lights I could use that circuit and that switch, probably will need an in line fuse.
  11. Jrms80

    Jrms80 Member

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    I guess if I took the hose off the through hull I could use it as another bildge pump too...
  12. Kafue

    Kafue Senior Member

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    I owned a pilothouse trawler years ago and all the portholes were green verdigris.
    One weekend I decided on a major clean up. Using a Dremel and rough sand fittings, I cleaned each fitting, then again with a milder sanding.
    Within a few hours the hull and my entire body was as green as the Hulk!
    Portholes looked great...for a few months, then back to green.
    Moral: forget it. If it does the job, leave it and save the energy for items that need constant work, like varnish!
  13. Beau

    Beau Senior Member

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    Kafue, responding to you not Joe. I always heard that the red burnish is the thing to watch for in a bronze fitting, no? Green doesn't mean a thing in terms of deterioration? In fact, you can remove it, but it will return.
  14. Kafue

    Kafue Senior Member

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    Never seen the red. Just the green.
    I came to view it the same as old leather in a classic English sports car, or the cracking of an old oil panting: Patina.
    Adds character.
    Cheers.
  15. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    Green is ok, although I prefer to spray the ones on boats I manage with corrossion block and they then aren't so green. Red is definately bad because that is generally electrolysis eating the metal.
  16. captholli

    captholli Senior Member

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    J,

    Your terminology is once again misleading, inaccurate and will cause confusion to boaters with a Reddish hue to their bronze through hull fittings. Metallurgy and corrosion are base course curriculum in marine engineering so I have a general knowledge but not an expert.
    You of all people should know that the term electrolysis isn't accurate for this affliction but rather "Galvanic Corrosion" would be the term that your reaching for as electrolysis is the exact opposite of galvanic corrosion and I suppose that after you jump on the computer and do some research you'll have a rebuttal. Without going into great detail you'll find many elemental variations of the composition of bronze
    be it for casting statues or marine fitting or so called naval bronze. The over riding difference between the compositions are the ratios of zinc and tin with the predominant alloy being copper. Some marine bronze is termed "Manganese bronze" & this is misleading as this alloy is in fact in the brass family due to its higher level of zinc Bronze in its raw state in a foundry will be a salmon colored before the addition of tin and zinc so in reality the Reddish color that you'll see from galvanic corrosion is the loss of zinc in the fitting and it will show by severe pitting due to the loss of the less noble zinc alloy and has nothing to do with electrolysis.
  17. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    We are talking about Electrolysis here, you have a bronze seacock, attached to a bronze thru hull, attached to plastic. Galvanic corrosion is generally when you have say a stainless seacock attached to a bronze thru hull, or 2 dissimilar metals touching each other, stainless screws into Aluminum, etc. etc.. Any thru hull or metal part with sea water in it or passing through it, needs to be bonded to keep electrolysis down to a minimum or can and will turn bronze red as it attacks it. But you don't get galvanic corrosion from Bronze attached to Bronze which has seawater in it.

    • Electrochemical corrosion or wet corrosion. This type of corrosion arises from the creation of an electrical element in a watery environment. This electrical element is build by two different metals with an electrolyte in between. The best example for such an element is a battery as used in every yacht or car. This electrochemical corrosion is also known as electrolysis or galvanic corrosion. As this corrosion is the biggest danger for all underwater metals we will go into depth how avoid this.

    • http://www.yachting-life.net/new index/frames3/electrol_frame.htm
    Galvanic corrosion (sometimes erroneously called electrolysis) can damage or destroy underwater metal parts of boats, dock hardware and other equipment. When two different metals are touching each other or are electrically connected by a conductor, and are immersed in an electrolyte (an electrically conductive fluid, like salt water) an electro-chemical reaction can occur. One of the metals (the “least noble” metal, called the anode) will corrode faster than it normally would, and the other (the “most noble” metal, or the cathode) will dissolve more slowly.

    http://www.westmarine.com/WestAdvisor/Preventing-Galvanic-Corrosion
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2015
  18. Marmot

    Marmot Senior Member

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    "Electrolytic corrosion results from the action of an imposed direct current. Galvanic corrosion results from self induced currents which in turn have resulted from the electrical potential between two dissimilar metals in contact."

    http://www.copper.org/applications/plumbing/techcorner/pdf/galvanic_corrosion.pdf

    The bronze valve that turned green did so because that is what bronze does when exposed to the a damp atmosphere, not because of electrolytic or galvanic corrosion - speaking of which I see the claim that both are the same thing seems to have vanished from post #17.
  19. captholli

    captholli Senior Member

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    The statement was "If your bronze through hull has a reddish color its from electrolysis" The composition of bronze is three dissimilar metals . Copper, tin & zinc form the alloy bronze. For the sake of this experiment lets say our seacock is 90% copper 6% tin and 4% zinc. When galvanism (galvanic corrosion) occurs the least noble metal (zinc) # 4 on the galvanic series & tin a bit higher up on the series will be corroded away leaving a higher % of copper and in turn your bronze through will be a very pitted reddish or salmon color referred to. Nothing to do with Green patina or copper acetate.
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2015
  20. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    Yes, Green is normal for bronze when exposed to salt air/water. A reddish color is electrolysis, which is what Captholli was speaking about, Bronze turning a reddish color. I've seen Bronze exposed to galvanic corrossion with sea water in it (a s/s thru hull someone put a Bronze seacock on, the bronze turned dark green/black in color, but anytime I've seen it a reddish color it's been electrolysis.
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