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Gamefishing for Sail Under Sail (and power)

Discussion in 'General Catamaran Discussion' started by brian eiland, Jul 28, 2004.

  1. brian eiland

    brian eiland Senior Member

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    How about this 'gamefishing under sail' concept adapted from my motor/sailer (motorsailer, motorsailor, motorsailing) catamaran design, that could fish the whole world on its own bottom....not a tournament vessel, but really long range/remote capabilities. And the non-sailer could operate this sailing rig with ease.

    For more discussions, please visit the gamefishing intro portion of my website at:
    http://www.runningtideyachts.com/gamefishing/

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Mar 28, 2005
  2. trouty

    trouty New Member

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    Brian

    It looks beautiful..

    My first perhaps "obvious" question, would be - how dies one "back down" on a rampaging billfish in this beast? (Wait for a change in wind direction?)

    Probably you've thought this thru, so have an answer...

    Cheers!
  3. brian eiland

    brian eiland Senior Member

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    Yes Trouty, I have given it some thought. My unique sailing rig significantly contributes to the capability to convert to a purely power mode very quickly, and reguardless of the wind direction. And then the widely spaced prop power application makes for superior manuvering.

    Some excerpts from my website:
    Gamefishing under sail? A great majority of the time spent actually fishing is done at trolling speeds (particularly so with the more recent popularity of flyfishing and light-tackle/stand-up styles). This catamaran can reach those trolling speeds under sail alone, in a silent, effortless, stable manner; and without having to use multiple sails. The single central sail (mainstaysail) is all that's needed to reach trolling speeds, and it can be rolled and stowed in 30 seconds or less, while the engines are engaged for exceptional maneuvering while landing the fish for tagging. I'm well aware that once a large gamefish is hooked, the vessel must get rid of all sail quickly, with minimum effort, and get under power. This unique vessel accomplishes that.

    And how about the rigging of the sail plan interfering with the fishing? Not much - look at perspective view. The wishbone boom swings up, to stow totally out of the way while trolling. The entire aft deck is clean except for the two backstays which broadly 'Y' out to either transom. Two short pole outriggers can be swung out from their stowed position up along side these backstays. Its possible that this upside down 'V' formed by the backstays could be rigged with additional trolling clip attachments. The actual configuration of the fishing cockpit area may be altered to suit the owner. Mr. Peter Wright, a very well known name in offshore fishing around the world, has indicated that he would be very pleased to help with the final configuration.
    ___________________________________
    Excerpts from a Sea Trial Article by Professional Capt. Rick Gaffney

    "Trolling under power, sail, or a combination of both, Tara Vana easily fishes a spread of four lines and two teasers with another two light-tackle outfits rigged with natural baits.....With additional 10-ft outriggers she offers a huge lure spread."

    "Under power alone Tara Vana has a respectable 1200-mile range, but thanks to her sail inventory and practical design she has virtually unlimited range."

    "Tara Vana was designed to sail at nearly wind speed, and trolls very efficiently under sail alone..."

    The designer " was asked to grapple with some of the unique requirements of a good sportfishing machine--the ability to back up quickly and maneuver with agility--then mesh them with a hull design that would not only perform well under sail, but also under power alone. The results are probably as close as anyone could come to the perfect compromise."

    "She converts into a highly maneuverable powerboat in about as much time as it takes to drop a bait back and hook a billfish in her teasers, and once under diesel power, her widely separated, fully reversible props allow her to pursue even the most agile billfish with impressive agility."

    "She backs down at over 10 knots without burying her two transom doors."

    "Modern roller-furling sails roll up automatically like old-time window shades, ready for deployment at the pull of a line."

    "Tara Vana features four staterooms, each with a queen-sized berth; and the main salon alone encompasses more space than virtually the entire interior of the" identical-size conventional vessel.

    "What self-respecting powerboater would be caught dead on a sailboat? Well, a practical self-respecting powerboater, for one! Someone who wants to get to a fishing area reasonably fast, in spacious, stable comfort, with minimum fuel consumption, then live aboard comfortably in places lacking creature comforts and readily available fuel supplies, and fish effectively in virtually any sea state."

    Rick Gaffney: A saltwater fly-rod world record holder, Capt. Gaffney has pursued big-game fish as an angler, charter boat captain, and photojournalist for well over 30 years.

    Tara Vana: A custom-designed 50 ft gamefishing/sailing catamaran operating out of the Pacific island of Bora Bora
  4. YachtForums

    YachtForums Publisher/Admin

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    Brian,

    It took the better part of two hours, but I examined your site in it's entirety. It was informative and educational, albeit lengthy at times. But that's alright, because innovation requires explanation and... considerable patience! I, for one, appreciate "forward" thinking... even if a mast is involved. ;)

    Be sure to place a link to your site under our "marine links" forum and if you are so inclined... I would appreciate a reciprocal link on your site.

    All the best!
  5. brian eiland

    brian eiland Senior Member

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    I got a good chuckle out of that. Yea, I get tooooo wordy some times.

    I will do that. My biggest problem is my computer illiteracy, particularly in learning new softwares and modifying my website. I really need to do it, and I have the software that created it, I've just not tackled the problem of learning to use it. I'd much rather spend my time with the technical subjects of making boats work than making computers work.....even though they are great communication and research tools. Guess I'm just not that inquisitive youngster anymore. I'm hoping to find some younger boat loving person to help me with my presentations, both website and graphics presentation.
  6. brian eiland

    brian eiland Senior Member

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    Fuel Prices


    How about 5-8 dollars in Europe now. My motorsailer/gamefishing catamaran is beginning to look a lot more attractive.....particularly should you wish to reach the Line Islands in the Pacific or the potential marlin birthing area in the Charlotte Bank off Brazil.
    And do you really believe prices are going to decline rapidly again now that China and the other Asian countries are in the world market big time for fuel supplies to keep their boiling economies going.

    This vessel might be a bit slower, but it doesn't require a mothership to reach those remote areas.

    For those interested in the subject have a look at this Tara Vana article.
  7. trouty

    trouty New Member

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    What self-respecting powerboater would be caught dead on a sailboat?

    I can tell you!

    A charter operator - for whom fuel costs is a huge part of his operational bottom line!

    I reckon you are onto a winner myself...

    Cheers!
  8. trouty

    trouty New Member

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    Did you ever read

    about Hubbard carl?

    Brilliant guy - who ended up badly....

    http://www.rexresearch.com/hubbard/hubbard.htm

    Sadly we've heard no more of his "coil generator" although I suspect - that since this was well before Oppenheimers time (think Nagasaki and Hiroshima), Hubbrad was most likely playing with gathering energy from the time domain utilising spatial circuits.

    This is very similar to what Bearden does with his MEGS (Motionless Electromagnetic Generators). www.cheniere.org

    Bearden and I have conversed a little (by email) about vessel propulsion - utilising energy from the time domain. My own opinion is that the energy could best be applied utilising a plasmoidal ion induction "wormhole traction drive system"...where a metal hull (alluminium) immersed in an electrolyte (seawater) is propelled bye ion propulsion from a plasmoid at the stern...

    Anyway - it's just an idea that seems to have some merit - but I suspect it's a long ways off yet.

    However - as Einstein himself once said - "if we can't imagine it - we can't invent it!" (I don't know if Einstein really said that but it sounded good if he didn't well **** it he shoulda!! Heck I don't know if his special theory of relativity actually stated "never loan munney to relatives", but if it didn't then likely it shoulda!) ;) :D

    Cheers!
  9. YachtForums

    YachtForums Publisher/Admin

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    Yep, sure did.

    This is a copy of my post to you awhile back...

    *********************************************************

    This is not one of my areas of expertise, however I had heard of research into "silent drive" motors, as they were nick-named down communication channels, during my tenure at Ameriquest, a research group funded by the Department of the Navy.

    It's not surprising that Hubbard's work was hushed. We've all heard of this (too often) with emerging technologies that can have a profound impact on economies that may be threatened by the same.

    The FDA and the AMA in this country have enormous control over substances that have proven beneficial (and legal in many countries), but could hurt the more accepted (read: profitable) forms of medicine.

    Another incident that comes to mind is Preston Tucker and the automobile he created. It was so far ahead of its time that General Motors managed to keep him from bringing it to market. It would appear that GM was not alone in their efforts to bring about his demise... they are afterall, well connected with the powers that be.

    The same holds true with energy technologies and the influence that Big Oil has over the Department of Energy and other governing bodies with the power to take things public, or store them away, never to be seen again... until the time is monetarily correct.

    Some technologies that come to mind are cold-fusion research and certain materials the Department of Defense controls for further development. Actually, one of these materials has made its way to the commercial sector... Liquid Metal.

    http://www.liquidmetal.com/technology/

    Not ironically, the compound was developed by a scientist at the California Institute of Technology, which also happened to be one of the research facilites that was granted contracts to experiment with defense related materials.

    Very unique compound that doesn't have the properties of those generally found, dare I say this, hmmm... on earth.
  10. brian eiland

    brian eiland Senior Member

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    Silent Drive Motors, etc

    Do you know that the Japanese and the Americans have, and are, spending VERY considerable amounts of money on these drive technologies for submarine applications. And that liquid metal technology is quite amazing isn't.

    There were a number of interesting technologies 'coming out' (of the closet) of our national labs for commericial presentation.....that is under our previous administration that didn't invoke God's name into everything. (Sorry for the politics here).

    Comman-Rail Diesel Engines
    On a more practical level I would like to enter a discussion of the newest electronics being adapted to diesel engines. In this great new day of electronics, we are seeing the emergence of the new comman-rail technologies that allow for very precise and powerful fuel injection at just the precise amount needed for any particular engine load condition..... Performance, economy, polution claims, etc, abound.

    But whats happens when your out in the middle of the ocean, or in some remote fishing area, and something screws up the electrics!! We all know sea water and electricity do not mix very well. What do we do ??...carry spare computer boxes, and whatever else electronic spares. And how about the diagnostic problems as well as technician. These engines can't be 'jury-rigged' to run without their electronic brains.
  11. brian eiland

    brian eiland Senior Member

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    Ocean Research Vessel Proposal

    Let me thrown a curve ball to you.

    In mentioning the submarines in the posting before, I was spurred on to add this subject to my discussions of a sailing/gamefishing boat. I have always been interested in the field of oceanography, and I am REAL concerned that we are damaging our oceans unknowingly and possible to a very great extent. We don't readily see this, as it is out of site, 'underwater' you might say.

    In there defense, the gamefishing guys have seen a decline in their prey, and have instituded a tag-and-release strategy. Just yesterday I heard an alarming report on the HUGE decline in the eel populations of the north atlantic. Scientist can't explain it, but don't you imagine this very prolific sea creature's demise is certainly effecting some other segment of the ocean world that depends on an abundance of this species??

    So I've copied a portion of a proposal intro letter I wrote to address some of these concerns. I've written to quite a number of well-healed persons that might be able to take advantage of some tax incentives to see such a project through.....so far, no takers. Does anyone else know of a party I might send such a Proposal to??
    ______________________________
    Lee-Kahn Foundation
    Subject: Grant Request, Submission of Initial Letter of Inquiry

    Per the home page of your website and one of your foundation’s most basic goals, "may our children and our children’s children experience the magic of Dolphins playing with the ocean waves".

    We are currently at a real risk of this not happening!!…..we are on the brink of an environmental disaster that may very soon be inflicted upon our oceans, and by our own Navy! Refer to the article, "A Texas Size Kill Zone" of dolphins, whales, big-game fish, and unknown other species. http://www.bigmarinefish.com/sonar_notice.html I spent some time working with the nuclear submarines. This is happening. If we permit our oceans to become a cemetery, we may damage its alter ego the atmosphere and ultimately our planet itself.

    Our oceans are a precious resource, even beyond our own imagination. We need more qualified academics in pure oceanography, in contrast to those drawn away into military weapons development or searching/developing oil resources in our seas. We need to get more kids excited about ocean studies… …initiate and perpetuate their interest. There are no Jacques Cousteau programs as there were in my youth. We need some training & introductory vessels for these students , and I think a few of them require a romantic image in order to lure some of these young people aboard. SAIL is one answer.

    I have over the past couple of years been in search of a client to build a very unique sail-powered, world- capable, gamefishing vessel. In reality I would much rather see such a vessel utilized as a fisheries research vessel , per the brief references on my website and a number of letter/proposals I have generated in search of that patriarchal owner/donor. Copies of these letters are available. And please visit my website http://www.RunningTideYachts.com , owner/charter section.

    In my letter to Netscape's Jim Clark I suggest that the creation of this vessel should be an exceptionally fun & exciting project. And then most rewarding, the placement of this vessel into a foundation organization for the use of a consortium of schools with ocean programs. I specified 'consortium' such that any one school is not over burdened with the whole of the expenses nor the demands of operating their own vessel, such as might occur when a private vessel is donated to a specific school.

    Mr. Kahn should find this sailing project very interesting; both on the innovative merits of the sailing design itself, as well as the vessel's utilization in the education of our youth in the oceanographic disciplines. Like an old Zen saying, "the journey is the reward." He might also find my letter to Katie Couric of interest, wherein I quote his ship’s log entry from the Trans Pacific Race 2001, "taking my son Shark along was one of the best things I did for the both of us. Priceless!"

    The goal is to provide at least one vessel, or several such vessels as hinted at in my letter to Bill Ford Jr. This vessel(s) would be operated by a non-profit foundation….either a newly created one, or assimilated into several already existing foundations.

    The new vessel design should be given a minimum of 1 year in development and construction time. The cost should range between 1.2 to1.5M. I have also identified two existing vessels (one fully operational, and the other 90% complete) that could become similar candidates for this work, and could begin work while the new design was in build. These two are available at bargain prices of 250K & 390K respectively. The grant is required to purchase the vessel(s) and put the project in motion. The operating expenses of both the vessels & foundation would come from a selection of worldwide businesses that seek out association with 'green projects' such as this, and from premium (charitable) charter donations from individuals & businesses seeking to entertain a social or business function onboard. The schools would be asked to share a portion of the expenses to their capabilities.
    Last edited: Aug 2, 2004
  12. brian eiland

    brian eiland Senior Member

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    Miami Show display

    I'm going to bring this thread up again on the list for several resaons.

    I brought a scale model of this vessel design back from Thailand recently and tried to get into several boat shows (one here and two in Europe). No luck yet finding an exhibitor I might piggy-back onto. I am now actively seeking to get to the Miami show. I believe I can get a spot in the 'strictly sail' portion of the show at the Miami Marina....so that might be my best bet this year.

    But I wonder about a small display spot in the 'Yacht & Brokerage Show' area up on Collins Ave. It would appear my bigger dollar customer would be attending here. If I weren't on a table, I have in mind a 'coat rack' type of display with the 24" model raised up at eye level. Wouldn't take up much space. Anyone down there in Fla have any ideas who I might speak with??

    And secondly, those fuel prices aren't coming down like the old days.
  13. YachtForums

    YachtForums Publisher/Admin

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    Brian,

    Try contacting the "Catamaran Company". They are located in South Florida and may have a display at Strictly Sail. Of all the sources that come to mind, they may prove most receptive... as this is their specialty. In addition, they seem to be deeply embedded in the sail-cat industry and may be able to help you find the resources to build a larger version of that model. ;)

    BTW... your concept stands on its own good merit without inducing fear of high oil prices into the equation. There are those who might frown upon such statements around here. I might be one of them. ;)

    Best!
  14. brian eiland

    brian eiland Senior Member

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    I have contacted them. In fact I know a number of their brokers personally. No positive response yet.

    BTW, I'm not trying to 'induce the fear of high gas prices', but rather unlike this current bunch in Washington DC, I am facing "reality", not fantasy world. Do you recall this previous forum discussion, $2.00 Gas

    I spent a couple of years working in the offshore oil business over in SE Asia. We saw this fuel crisis coming a long time ago.
  15. brian eiland

    brian eiland Senior Member

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    I will be displaying the model of this vessel at this year's show in several weeks. I will have a stand-alone spot in the 'strictly sail' portion of the show. Come by and have a brief look, ask a few questions if you're so inclined.
  16. brian eiland

    brian eiland Senior Member

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    Motorsailing Cat

    Originally this gamefishing cat started out as a motorsailer concept. So I thought I would add this discussion to this thread:



    Motor/Sailing Catamaran Concept
    (defining ‘the best boat to undertake a world cruise’)


    I sincerely believe that a well conceived Motor/Sailer is the most practical, capable, comfortable, safe, economical vessel for serious ocean passagemaking......while retaining the ability to fully explore the most remote, and often shallow coastal regions of the water world.

    Even in Beebe’s book,”Voyaging Under Power”, the bible of the power-only crowd, his vessel, “Passagemaker”, was a motorsailer, albeit smaller rigged than he really wanted. Many of the examples he offers as prime passagemakers are instead prime coastal cruisers, ‘semi-displacement’ hulls not optimized for long passages, but rather coastal cruising, where rapid transit is a primary requirement, while fuel use and surviving ultimate conditions are secondary considerations. ‘Trawlers’ today are gravitating toward these semi-planning hull configurations, and twin engines, as buyers become reluctant to accept slow 7-9 knot vessels. And forget wide appeal of primarily sail-powered vessels, particularly with our aging population, so how about those old versatile motorsailers.

    We don’t hear much of motorsailers these days....not a popular subject. The old traditional, stoutly-built vessels, with a hefty engine(s), were necessarily compromised in both their sailing and powering statistics. Let’s modernize the motorsailer. The multihull planform holds great promise to improve this breed. The long slender hulls of the catamaran vessel have proven real efficient to push under both power & sail.....not only efficient, but not limited to the traditional slow displacement/length hull-speeds. Just what the motorsailer needs....far less compromising increases in both sail and power performance, while maintaining an economy of operation that truly allows a sea-kindly, long-range capability.

    Let’s explore a 40' example. Take the single 120-140 hp diesel used to push the conventional 40' single-hulled trawler or motorsailer to a maximum 8.3 knots hull speed and divide it into two smaller 60 hp diesels driving two long slender catamaran hulls. Voila!, maximum to 15 knots under power with the reliability of twin engines and the stability of a twin-hulled vessel. Add a modest sailing rig to these easily driven hulls, and you now have a passagemaker capable of cruising 12 knots under sail/ power compared with those older 7-knot boats. With 12 knots of speed at your command, you can really take advantage of 'weather windows' to: 1) make your passage as smooth as possible, 2) make some lengthy passages you might never have considered in a slower boat. This multihulled vessel will likely be slowed less by an obstructive seaway, and will accordingly make a passage at almost twice the average speed of the single-hulled vessel...twice the speed for the same total HP. There is an economy of operation here that cuts fuel requirements and bills, and greatly extends their range. In light airs, running one engine often is all that is needed to bring the apparent wind forward to make the sails work harder, and the combination provides much better results than either motoring or sailing alone…… sailing synergy/harmony, the motor taking over in the lulls and the rig taking over in the puffs.

    The sea-kindliness of multihull craft is being rediscovered every day. Continual experiences with whale watching boats, fast ferries, pleasure, commercial, and military applications are all proving the validity of the multihull form. What many people forget about a good ride in a heavy sea is that it is very much a function of weight in addition to hull shape. More weight, more robust, more form resistance it offers to moving thru the ocean, the more the sea acts to resist the vessel's progress, and thus the more uncomfortable ride, and we must slow down. A big headsea is a particular challenge. Heavy boats carry their momentum into each trough and crest in a battle with the sea, while lighter weight vessels with slender hulls slice through with less battering. Per a sign at the Naval academy, you can out-think the ocean, but you can’t out-slug the ocean.” Modern materials allow for lighter boats, and we must properly distribute the vessel's weight throughout long slender hulls. Following seas tend to pick up broad sterns and slew a vessel off to either side....broach. The catamaran hull does not require these broad sterns.

    Storm survivability should be considered at the design stage for any vessel making offshore passages. Loss of power (clogged cooling or fuel filters, restricted air supply, water ingress, etc) often occurs at the most inopportune time (during a storm), and this can put the solely powered vessel at peril in short order. A vessel with a modest sailing rig could save your life, and that of vessel itself. Add a proper sea anchor installation, and I would challenge a hurricane. The catamaran planform was rated ‘best in survivability’ in huge breaking wave tests* carried out by Lock Crowther at the prestigious Univ of Southampton. See note below.

    Most innovative item on my vessel, the mast-aft sailing rig, also referred to as a ‘single-masted ketch’ ......a marriage between a cutter and a ketch without the mainsail. I have LOTS of data to support my contentions as to the aerodynamic superiority of this configuration.... But lets leave that theory out of the equation for our motorsailing application. The ketch rig is a good small-crew size rig, particularly where all three sails are roller furling!....even a novice could learn to operate this rig.....and she balances under a variety of sail deployments. Lower force centers add safety. Boats with moderate rig proportions tend to make faster overall passages because they are sailed at a higher level of capability than if they carry a lofty hi-performance rig. No big head-bashing booms, and simply wing/wing the headsails downwind. The sail rig contributes damping action to the rolling in a beam/quarter sea (no servo-fins needed), contributes to an unlimited range, and ultimately it will get you home if the engines fail. Ahhhh motorsailing!

    Optional nacelle-mounted centerboard precludes any extra hull penetrations, and permits maintenance without hauling-out. ‘Pointed’ deckhouse shape conforms to apparent winds, significantly reducing drag. Flying control bridge & a crows-nest…what a hoot! Dedicated engine rooms, isolated from living spaces. Optional copper-nickel hull material below waterline is impact resistant and naturally antifouling for years.

    Accomodations!! How might it appear as a real estate ad?, “Waterfront cottage, 4/5 bedrooms, three baths, large kitchen & dining area, big deck, wonderful views.” Hard to beat a catamaran’s spaciousness and privacy....witness their current popularity in the market. Seamanlike layout... no vast open spaces.

    My 65' Motor/Sailing catamaran is the embodiment of a Phil Rhodes’ motorsailer design that has haunted me all these years. Only, this vessel is so much superior. Twin 100hp diesels will cruise her at 12/14knts. Under sail she could make 18/20kts. Range, unlimited. Fuel consumption, extremely low. She could skim over depths as little as 3.5'. Explore those rivers, mangroves, coves, lagoons. Beach the bows. Dive or fish the flats and the reefs from the Bahamas to the Pacific atolls.
    THIS IS AN EXPEDITION PASSAGEMAKER!! , 20-25meters, no crew required.


    *Note: reference source, Lock Crowther Designs
    “This work (tank testing at Southampton Univ) has indicated that the well designed catamaran is remarkably safe in breaking waves up to considerable height, even when beam on, we were unable to capsize a power catamaran yacht in the largest wave which could be generated. This corresponded to a 52' wave for a catamaran of 40' beam. Scaling this down to a typical 24' beam cruising cat means she should be O.K. in a 31' breaking beam sea. An equivalent size mono-hull power boat was easily capsized by a 25' breaking sea, and in tests with conventional yachts after the Fastnet disaster, it was found that a 40' mono-hull yacht could capsized in a 12' breaking sea.”
  17. brian eiland

    brian eiland Senior Member

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    Ft. Lauderdale Show '05

    Well lets try again this year. Last year I put the model in the 'sail section' of the Miami show, and just as I anticipated from being in the sailing business for some number of years, the response was interesting 'for the moment' of the show, but nothing positive came of it. My vessel is a bit high priced for this crowd, in general. I need to be in a 'YACHT' area.

    I've tried for several years to get some response from the people at the Ft. Lauderdale show. I'm lucky to get a return eMail or letter 2-6 months after the show has occurred, Obviously they have a waiting list of people wishing to display at this show, so they're not going to worry about one little guy who hopes to display his idea on a budget account. I'm not marketing a whole line of product here that could justify a big budget marketing outlay. I have a rather singular concept of a sail-assisted fishing vessel that may gain some increased interest as our fuel cost escalate. I also get an increasing interest to the motorsailer concept from which this fishing vessel evolved.

    I plan on attending the show this year to get a lay-of-the-land feel, having not done so for several years. I will probably pack up the model and take it along, just in case something comes up. Should anyone have any suggestions as to someone I might approch about piggy-backing into a small portion of their spot, I would appreciate any leads. Thanks, Brian

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Sep 15, 2005
  18. brian eiland

    brian eiland Senior Member

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    Fishing & Fuel

    Just thought I would resurrect this old subject thread considering our current fuel outlook for this coming summer.
  19. Kevin

    Kevin YF Moderator

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    $100 per barrel by June...? Or July? Sooner or later, I see it coming. :(
  20. Sean

    Sean New Member

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    interesting read. i like the idea of a wind powered trawler that can operate at competition speed without the noise of most competition vessels. the diesel electric technology available to commercial vessels today is also (i feel) beneficial for where you're heading with this concept. being able to trawl under sail then hook on a billfish and be able to have complete control of the vessel i believe is completely within reach today. it may just be a matter of correctly juggling the control/implementation on the vessel. the cat setup works for perfectly as well for maximising tackle available deployment and or guest access to the stern. what sort of size range are you envisaging this concept being practical for?

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