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From $2.00 gas to $5.00 gas in 4 years

Discussion in 'General Yachting Discussion' started by Codger, May 18, 2008.

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  1. W. Arthur

    W. Arthur New Member

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    Two prized accomplishments that can help to make human-life on this planet bearable and society’s ongoing development efficient, equitable, and attainable:

    1. Follow The Golden Rule
    2. State Truths – NOT – Lies

    Unfortunately, #1’s Golden Rule seems no longer practiced by a too many political and business leaders; therefore allowing “greed” to take lead position.

    Equally unfortunately, amongst political and business leaders, #2’s word Lie is beginning to considerably outpace Truth... again, “greed” is taking lead position.

    “IF” the majority of leaders throughout every sector of civilization would simply practice the clearly outlined basis of #1 and #2, I believe that many current problems could soon be resolved. If not, then global problems will likely get worse before getting better. Simply said: Such is Life!

    OK – I’m done for this week! Heading for the boat in a couple hours; we leave dock this evening. Cruising, and hooking, and diving, and swimming, and playing in our tow-behind speed boat. Mon at AM... I’ll be back at desk!

    Happy Boating! – W.
  2. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

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    Have a safe and fun weekend.:)
  3. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

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    Here it comes folks. In case the boat business hasn't gotten its final nail in the coffin, the oil companies have started releasing the stories to get you used to hearing the numbers so you'l accept them when they hit. Today's MSNBC.com headline: "Gas prices soaring and expected to keep climbing. Some analysts predict a national average of $3.95 a gallon by Memorial Day. NBC’s John Yang reports." That should bring marine fuel costs over $5 a gallon here (It was announced this morning that NY currently has the highest gas prices in the country), and Europe will probably require your first born. Still no calls to nationalize the oil companies? I know, it's capitalism. They're entitled to as much as they can screw out of us.
  4. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    You do realize that most if not all of the oil that is refined and sold in the United States is imported from another Country. Most companies are getting it from other countries. How do you plan on Nationalizing the Middle East, Dubai, Canada, or Venezuela? Are you proposing World War III? How about actually allowing companies to drill and setup rigs and refineries in the US? As we speak China is drilling for oil.....right off of good old Key West, Florida via Cuba.

    NY has the highest gas prices in the country due to the taxes NY State puts on each gallon of gasoline. "New York's gasoline tax stands at 44.6 cents per gallon-the highest gas tax in the nation." Your state is screwing you more than Exxon Mobil and by a long shot.

    If you look at the chart, the United States gasoline consumption has gone down by almost 40% compared to 5 years ago.

    NYCAP, who is it that you think owns Exxon Mobil or any of the other gas companies you want nationalized? What person at these gas companies do you think is the person screwing you? Exxon Mobil (and most others) are publicly traded companies on a stock exchange. Exxon Mobil is owned by a million different people, basically anyone who owns shares of Exxon Mobil stock is one of the owners of the company. So, if you too would like to make some of the oil company money, go buy some shares of stock, and collect a dividend check every 1/4. Do you think the government should steal the ownership of Exxon Mobil from a million different American Citizens?
  5. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    Here is our consumption chart

    Attached Files:

  6. Codger

    Codger YF Wisdom Dept.

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    Interesting catching up on this thread that I had something to do with starting, almost 4 years ago.
    The more things change, the more they stay the same. Lots of politicians of all stripes running around flapping their gums about energy policy, and just making it darn near impossible for anyone that actually wants to do anything about actually supplying petroleum products to get anything done. Petroleum production and transportation side hasn't done much to put ourselves at the top of anyone's Christmas card list the past couple of years.
    The pipeline project south is still stalled. Now we're looking at running a pipeline out to the west coast to supply alternative markets. If that goes, it sure won't do anything to lower prices. Lots of the non-pleasure boat types floating around Hormuz. Nigeria is more of a mess than ever, hard as that is to believe. Overcapacity in the tanker fleet so shipping costs are negotiable. Yup, shaping up to be an interesting year in the oil patch.
    Anyone think we'll see 50 buck a bbl oil this year? Nah, thought not.
  7. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

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    All valid. What I don't understand is why one drop leaves this continent when we then must import. What I don't understand is why we subsidize these companies to the tune of $40B when: “Exxon Mobil Profit Beats Estimates, but Shares Move Lower. Revenue was $121.6 billion, an increase from $105.19 billion a year ago. Net profit was $9.4 billion, or $1.97 a share, matching Wall Street expectations. That compared with $9.25 billion, or $1.85 per share, a year earlier. Revenue rose 15.6 percent to $121.6 billion. For the full year, Exxon earned $41.1 billion”. $40B in subsidies/ $41.1B in earnings. Hmmmm. What I don't understand is why states are permitted to rake their own citizen over the coals with outrageous taxes on a product that is necessary for the very survival of those citizens. Pipeline south? Sounds pretty good if it weren't to be paid for by the citizens with a bunch of big names taking their slice off the top. What I don't understand is why cost overruns are permitted on any public project. Sort of makes bidding irrelevant. Me, I'm just a little guy who doesn't understand a lot. The one thing that I do understand though is that boat sales and movement slowed way down when fuel reached $3 a gallon, slowed further when it hit $4 and even more when the economy dumped. Anybody care to guess what will happen this summer when it crosses $5? Anybody on eastern Long Island want to guess what's about to happen to captain's rates this summer when we must heat our homes and drive 100+ miles round trip to get to your boats? Your electronics guy? Your mobile mechanic? I've heard all the reasons why, and they're good. I also see that the current system isn't working for anybody but the commodity brokers and the oil companies. WWIII? Is it really far off? Anybody seen the news lately from Hormuz? We've all got our reasons why, and like I said, I'm just a little old guy who doesn't understand a lot. But what I'd like to hear is what can be done to stop the madness. Any suggestions? Me, I think nationalizing is a good first step, but I'd love to hear anybody else's suggestions beyond 'that's just the way it is'.
  8. AMG

    AMG YF Moderator

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    You are a lucky guy, here we are paying $ 8.00 a gallon...
  9. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

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    Am I a lucky guy or are you just getting ripped off worse?
  10. AMG

    AMG YF Moderator

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    Compared to my 80% income tax, the fuel is a bargain...
  11. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

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    Once again, is it a bargain or just less of a rip-off?
  12. W. Arthur

    W. Arthur New Member

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    Dear NYCAP, Codger, AMG and others.

    This is how I see it - - >

    I’m not allowed by this forum’s rules to state energy companies’, financial organizations’’ or govt institutions’ names... or “detailed” business situations in which I’ve worked for years and still work most days... so I won’t... made that mistake once and got spanked, i.e. kicked off! Licked my wounds and reentered with better understanding of what NOT to do in order to be able to enjoy and participate in this valuable boating forum. I am trainable, but not stoppable... short of death!

    Here is “broad overview” of what my associates and I see unfolding (we are national and international based Alliance):

    1. Many Big Oil Companies, the Biggest Financial Organizations and several Disparate Big Govts are intently working on Disparate Deals... that often alter quickly in context and that are in direct competition with each other, for the sake of $$$ (i.e. power) ONLY, with NO care for civilization in general, and with mostly lip service regarding climate and environmental conditions. $$$MONEY$$$ is the ONLY item actually sought. POWER is The Prize. Humanity’s mental-state remains medieval – at best!
    2. China will financially swamp America during this decade (maybe sooner rather than later!) – and – this is America’s own fault! Washington DC politicians have for a long time been bought/sold/paid-for by Big Biz and Big Finance Orgs that partner with those (Govts) who have the BIG $$$, i.e. China – in the 21st Century.
    3. There are economical to produce, potential global scale in volume, “carbon net neutral” recyclable/renewable liquid hydrocarbon fuel sources whose developments are currently being severely thwarted (virtually trounced) by the powers that be, i.e. Big Oil, Big Finance, and Big Govts. Why??? – Well that’s simple – Because there is currently more $$$ in continuing to produce fossil fuel based hydrocarbon liquid fuels. Follow the immediate money $$$!!
    4. General conjecture by leaders in our Alliance is that due to the unstoppable greed and competition conflicts commandeering the largest companies, organizations, and nations there will eventually be unprecedented economic alterations that affect global conditions to the down side... how soon and to what levels down??? Those are multi Trillion Dollar Questions! Will major scale wars occur – maybe? Will nuclear bombs eventually get into use – if large scale wars occur – that might be???

    During this juncture to civilization’s rise (or interruption) I am pleased to live in America, feel that America will still stand, and hope the best for all humanity concerned.

    As an avid boater... I sure wish the best for the boating industry! On all counts, this will be an interesting decade! :eek:

    Cheers and Happy Boating! - Art
  13. AMG

    AMG YF Moderator

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    You tell me, the taxes are about 60% of the fuel price here = $ 4.80 and Big Oil will have $ 3.20 for their product and service...
  14. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

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    Well stated Art. We're in a race towards our own destruction and the only question is will it come sooner or later. The only thing we know (or have any control over) is that we want to personally survive longer than the guy right below us. We all work the bottom up approach, i.e. drive less, don't buy boats or don't cruise as much or cut back on any voluntary payments like tips, but the bottom is falling out. It's not a U.S. problem or a European problem or even a Chinese problem. It's a world problem, and must be tackled on as close to a world basis as possible. We are quickly heading into (if not already there) a world run not by countries or even super-powers, but by corporations. The only way to fight it is for countries to band together and say No More. That must start with individual countries, preferably the super-powers. The OPEC nations realized the reverse of that when they formed in order to get higher prices for crude. Boat builders can't hold their prices, and I certainly can't if our costs keep rising. So we all charge more to a shrinking pool of customers. The only thing I know is that change is coming and it will hurt. If it comes today it will hurt a lot. If it comes tomorrow it will be more devastating. If it comes next year it may be world altering or even world ending. Me, I'm getting old. I'll probably survive my life. Anybody have grandkids? My father's generation bit the bullet so we could have a decent life and the generation before him really sacrificed for the same reason. My generation took and took and took. Our grandkids will live to curse us unless we do something. There's a million little avenues of greed that contribute to our problem, but the one common denominator in the rising cost of everything is oil.
  15. W. Arthur

    W. Arthur New Member

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    NYCAP - What you say is Spot On!
  16. Kafue

    Kafue Senior Member

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    Firstly, I thought we had agreed NO MORE POLITICS!

    Seeing as you have brought this up though, here’s is my slant on your post:
    I heard and read the same things in the US and Australia during the 80’s except then it was the Japanese that were “buying the farm”. Look at them now.

    China will soon have far too many social and economic problems to be able to buy out America.
    Your view that the US is selling out to the Chinese is both naïve and insulting to the US in general, which remains, even in these tough times, the most dynamic, progressive and free country in the world, which allows for new solutions, technologies and inventions to breed. I say insulting because do you honestly believe the most successful capitalist deal makers in the world (US business and politicians) are not capable of turning a dollar in a way that profits them and their voters?

    The first major economy to come out of the present mess will be the US.

    As for your “Alliance” good luck to you all, just don’t shove their/your slanted CONSPIRACY THEORY down the throats of people who are here for the love of boating.
  17. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

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    Agree with the no politics. This is economics that directly affects the boating industry. Economics and politics are very difficult to separate, especially on this scale. So it's important to tread carefully, but it must be discussed and pressure needs to be applied or else our industry is dead. This same conversation is going on in virtually every industry and at every dinner table around the world whether it's formed around the price of food, trying to fuel your car or the cost of raw materials. I'm driving a 10 year old car. I've never before kept a car more than 5 years. There are some people in the auto industry that I'm sure are not happy to hear that. We cannot keep taking more profit from less product. It's not sustainable. And as I pointed out before, the one common denominator is oil.
  18. Kafue

    Kafue Senior Member

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    Point 2 IS politics.
    Point 4 Is telling us there is a CONSPIRACY amongst the "leaders" to kill new technology to make more money out of oil.
    As for the "Alliance" which is international and national, do I need to check out my window for a black car with some bad dudes, or am I going to be tarred and feathered? All this on YACHT FORUM!
    Give me a break!!!
  19. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

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    Agree on both. Like I say, difficult to seperate, and it's important to tread cautiously. I don't think Art was trying to take it political, but he came at least close. As for the black car, maybe you should. Remember, 'Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean nobody's out to get you'. Every cell call, tweet and e-mail is monitored. Say the wrong thing and that car will be there. Just ask the couple from the UK that tweeted to their friends a couple of weeks ago that they were going to bomb LA or something to that effect, meaning they were going to party like it's 1999. They never made it out of LAX.;)
  20. Kafue

    Kafue Senior Member

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    Shhhhhhhhh........you are scaring the crap out of me!
    All the best NYCAP!
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