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Disappointing survey today...

Discussion in 'Technical Discussion' started by Norseman, Oct 23, 2015.

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  1. Norseman

    Norseman Senior Member

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    I had an Albin 28TE surveyed and sea-trialed today.
    Not only was equipment not working, single hose clamps below the water line, 3-foot section de-laminated under water, rusty pumps, cracks close to stringers, (inside) water inside cored hull above the water line, but it only ran 18 knots at WOT at 3400 rpm when the Yanmar 315 HP should be pushing 3600 and 23-24 knots.
    (Not over-propped as the speed was low, not under-propped as the RPM was low)
    Possible throttle cable not opening up injector pump to full open?

    Don"t think the hull was water logged as only small sections of de-lamination and normal waterline (unless owner raised the waterline after June Bottom Job), nor was it choppy on the ICW: 5 adults, half fuel.

    Not sure where to go next, low-ball offer or walk away.
    Should get the full survey report in a few days.
    These are usually rock-solid boats, but ignorant owners could of cause change that:((
  2. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

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    I think you hit the nail on the head with your last sentence. Doesn't sound like something I'd go near. '3' section delaminated under water, cracks close to the stingers and water inside the cored hull.' You can hit it with a moisture meter to confirm, but I think you've got a soggy hull and the damage will probably go far beyond what you can determine visually. The weight of the water in a soggy hull could be your answer to the RPM /speed.
  3. Norseman

    Norseman Senior Member

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    Yup, but limited damage, nothing that $6k could not fix.
    The powerplant could be more serious.
    Don't want no project, I just may walk away or do better inspections and sea-trials before I blow money on surveys and haul-outs in the future.
    I can tell what speed the boat is running without a surveyor
  4. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

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    Delamination, water inside cored hull and cracks by the stringer can be fixed for $6,000? I'm missing something, because I'm not sure how you can know the extent of the damage until you start cutting it apart or at least going over it with a moisture meter. On a 28 footer I should imagine you've got enough experience to not necessarily need a survey, but you need to be very skeptical. You haven't said anything good about the boat, some potentially big problems amd you said you don't want a project. What equipment is "not working"?
  5. Norseman

    Norseman Senior Member

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    As per the surveyor, not me.
    The $6k was for cutting open and fixing known damage, the 3' delaminated area under the water line and the 2 transom corners above the water line.
    As he pointed out and as we all know, there could be hidden damage once you
    Start cutting. That being said, this is not balsa core, but some synthetic foam that does not rot.
    The crack by the stringer, under the aft berth could be in the surface, not sure.
    Will wait for the final report, but tempted to walk away from this thing unless the owner start fixing things on his nickel.
  6. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    I agree with all this. And, after surveying 2 of these boats with major problems how can you say they're well built boats?
  7. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

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    J I was just about to send a PM you and Norseman because you're right there, but since you joined in let me ask. What about you getting with Norseman on PM or maybe taking a look at this boat with him? We all know that buyers get blinded. It's always good to have someone's eye who has no skin in the game. A boat like that may take an hour's time.
  8. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

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    The cracked stringers are under the AFT berth and delamination at the transom corners? Is the delamination under the waterline near the stern as well? On second thought I don't think J needs to look at it. The core may net be balsa or rot, but does it wick? That delamination could extend far beyond what you see. Walk away.
  9. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    I wouldn't touch anything with Balsa, it wicks water like an absorber chamois...... Cracked stringers under aft berth and delamination at transom corners sounds like MAJOR structural issues.
  10. olderboater

    olderboater Senior Member

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    I can almost guarantee there's hidden damage. When you get into structural damage as described, it will be worse the more you dig.

    As to Capt J's comment about you saying they're well built boats, perhaps that applies to certain years or certain boats. You've definitely seen a pattern and odds are you haven't magically found the only two with the problems you've seen.
  11. menkes

    menkes Member

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    I would say run away !!!
    As they say in my language:
    Why bring a healthy head into a sick bed !
  12. Norseman

    Norseman Senior Member

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    They are well built boats, but ignorant owners can screw up anything over the years.
    Don.t feel like taking on a project boat, or sticking my head in a sick bed...

    If anybody is interested in details, I can certainly PM the survey.

    In the meantime, I found another one in Stuart (Florida).
    This one is described as a cream puff.
    Then again, that is what the brokers said about the other 2 Albins I surveyed.
  13. SeaEric

    SeaEric YF Historian

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    out on the dock
  14. Norseman

    Norseman Senior Member

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    Yup, I am sure there is nice ones out there.
    I may go and look at the one in Stuart, or I may just step back and do nothing for a while. Perhaps let a good boat find me instead :)
  15. Pascal

    Pascal Senior Member

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    The problem with balsa core is that the boats do not come with a warning labels about the care required by balsa core when working on these hulls so while the are as many ignorant owners as there are ignorant voters, at least the boat owners have an excuse... :)

    In this case, the odds of finding additional damage in the near future is very high.

    Just curious, was the delaminates bottom section near any thru hull, xducer, etc? If so were the factory installed or installed after delivery...
  16. Norseman

    Norseman Senior Member

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    Not balsa, these boats have Airex, some syntetic foam material resistant to rot.
    (would never touch a balsa boat, have heard too many horror stories)
    Don't have enough background information to know what was installed when.
    That being said, I noticed there was a regular depth finder and a fish finder.
    Probably 2 different transducers and most likely one installed after production, looking at the results, by an amateur.
    I am still waiting for the full survey report, but based on what I saw yesterday,
    I will probably walk away and kiss the $711 goodbye.
    (Surveys can be cheap insurance, I am way ahead already)
  17. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    No matter how mis-treated I've seen boats, having structural issues with transom and delamination and those types of things are very rare and points more to the build quality, than the care of the boat. On a boat that size/type it's rare the owner will be adding thru-hulls and drilling holes in the hull.
  18. Pascal

    Pascal Senior Member

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    If the core isn't balsa then it s even worst... At least with balsa you know the material will wick water but delamination in a form core hull means an big issue during the lay up, not a post build installation issue like balsa

    There is no reason to believe it will not happen elsewhere in the hull
  19. Kafue

    Kafue Senior Member

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    Airex has few real world write ups on the net.
    More information on it's pro's and cons from you guys are of interest to me...