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Crusader 454 problem. HELP!

Discussion in 'Engines' started by firedreamer, Sep 17, 2013.

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  1. firedreamer

    firedreamer New Member

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    OK I have twin 1987 "350/454ci" crusaders. Serial #60292. While at the fuel dock the other day the stbd one died, I restarted it and it seemed to feel like it didn't have any power almost like no gas and then died again after a few sec. Got back to the slip on the other Eng and now it won't start.
    First thought was fuel so I opened the main aluminum tank (the port eng continues to run fine on this tank) it has 1/4 tank of fresh and clear gas. I just finished a 260 mile trip about a month ago. I have checked and the vent line clean/clear and open. Took a hand bulb pump and get good fuel from the tank to the canister filter on the eng going through the selector switch and a bulkhead mounted filter. The filter was clean and clear but i replaced it anyway and it was replaced new before the 260 mi cruise here. Pulled the line off the carb and turned over the eng and have good flow whit good streams in the carb. So I don't think its fuel, not i turned to "spark" it does not seem to me that I'm getting spark from the plug wire or the coil to dist. with when i ground them out on the eng. I have the Mallory YL 670AV distributor with what were pretty old points. I changed the cap and rotor as well as the points and here's the odd thing. Still will not start and when I compare the voltage between the good eng and this one, with the keys turned on i get about 11.5 volts from the lead on the dist. going to the coil, and from the coil to the resistor in the pic (both sides of it) and then on down to the starter solenoid vers diff voltages on the good eng. Can anyone help or tell me what the issue could be before i have to call in a mechanic.

    Attached Files:

  2. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

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    Hard to diagnose via the Internet, but let me run through a few things. Fuel pump operating? Are the points gapped properly? How are the wires, in good condition and not grounding on anything? Electrical connections clean? Compression? Vacuum hoses? Air filter?
  3. firedreamer

    firedreamer New Member

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    fuel pump seems to put out a good amount at the carb filter, connection when pulled off, filter clean, points at 0.018 per the marine eng shop, wires seem in good condition but will look them over and for one shorting out against something, wire connections are pretty old /and a little rusty looking , will clean them all up as best i can and let ya all know, thanks so far
  4. jlplatts

    jlplatts Member

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    I had the same vintage engines on a previous boat and and a similar problem. If the engine will not start check the coil wire. In my case the coil wire rubbed on a metal brace and shorted out. Check the coil wire for wear spots.

    If it starts and has no power it may be a little more troubling. Another time, unrelated to the coil wire, I had a bent push rod. The engine started and ran, but had no power running on 7 of 8 cylinders. I was lucky in that there was no piston damage, I only had to have the heads redone.
  5. RT46

    RT46 Senior Member

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    I agree, its hard to tell from an internet post.

    the fuel dock is a red flag for me.....
    make sure that it is fuel and not water....

    will the engine start with starting fluid?
    check fuel vac and press
    check carb and fuel pump, do you have a mechanical or electric pump.

    what do the plugs look like?

    your issue may be in the coil or external resistor.
    you could swap with the running engine to and isolate the coil and resister.

    I don't want to spend your money, but you can upgrade those engines to an electronic distributor for a few hundred dollars.

    If its time for a tune up anyway, do the coil, points, wires, plugs, and set the timing....

    I bet she will run great.

    I think the 454 Crusader is one of the best marine small boat engines of all time.

    I only wish the 454 Crusader had enough power to push my boat.

    good luck capt
  6. firedreamer

    firedreamer New Member

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    well i did not take on any fuel, just pumped out holding tank. Fuel pump is mechanical and plugs are good, changed about 125hrs ago, I guess in the morning i will swap coils and see what happens, was just a little worried about taking something from the running eng and then have it get messed up /shorted out etc. and not run when i put it back i will look to change out Dist. in the spring before we start out again. We are here for the winter, Port Angeles WA.
  7. firedreamer

    firedreamer New Member

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    anybody happen to have the repair / service manual maybe in PDF or scanable that ya could email me? just a thought
  8. Capt Ralph

    Capt Ralph Senior Member

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    In your picture is a ballast resistor. it's bad. It happens.
    With a temporary wire lead, bypass the resistor.
    You will crank up and run.
    Order a correct marine ballast resistor for both engines.
    doug decker likes this.
  9. garyohv

    garyohv New Member

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    Often the resistor is only in the "run" circuit, so the engine will start, but stop when the key is released. But Crusaders often keep the resistor in the circuit, both start and run (seems wrong). He states their is (low) voltage at both sides of the resistor, so it is good. With adequate voltage at the coil (11.5), and the high tension wire not sparking near a ground, it suggests a bad coil, condenser, or points. The low voltage is a connection/key/fuse problem.
  10. Capt Ralph

    Capt Ralph Senior Member

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    If the points are closed, the negative side of the coil & points should not have any B+, only when open.
    Remember the theory, the contact points open and close to negative ground. This allows the coil to build up a primary winding charge, then collapses producing a secondary winding discharge; the spark. The points are very inportant and as simple as it is, can cause a world of problems if the little things are not correct.

    Make sure the points are opening AND closing. Use a ohm meter to make sure. As long as your ohm meter is in hand, measure the resistance between the point set base and the engine block, should read 0.

    Would you have an old dwell meter with you? Any reading (hopefully correct) would prove the points, B+ and ballast are good leaving the coil as suspect with out part swapping.
  11. Capt Ralph

    Capt Ralph Senior Member

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    I miss-read the post the first time. Think I got it now. When you get fixed back up, consider replacing the ballast resistors anyway. They do get hot and fail.
  12. firedreamer

    firedreamer New Member

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    Ok found the problem, I put in a "new" set of points and it turns out they had a little bit of corrosion on them i guess. After i found no spark at the plugs i took a little 200grit sandpaper to the point and just lightly hit them and "Wham" it started right up. timing was off about 6 degrees but now it starts and runs fine ! thanks everyone for all ur help and ideas ! ! ! got to love boating forums !
  13. Capt Ralph

    Capt Ralph Senior Member

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    200 grit? May be a bit harsh. You want a near polished surface at the contact area or pitting will accrue quickly. 1000+ or a burnishing tool would be slightly better, another set of points preferred. Did you put in a fresh condenser?
    How about a dwell meter? Air gap is fine, but to really set points and get the most bang (spark) to those plugs, a proper cycle on the coil is set with proper dwell timing on the points.
  14. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

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    I kept a lot of cars and boats going by cleaning and gapping with an emory board.:D
  15. Capt Ralph

    Capt Ralph Senior Member

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    Use an old match book. finer grit. holds pressure against the surface. less debris left behind. The finer the contact surface, the better it works.
  16. RT46

    RT46 Senior Member

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    for around $300 you can drop in a marine electronic distributor kit and never have that problem again.
  17. Capt Ralph

    Capt Ralph Senior Member

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    Although electronic distributor components are near bombproof, They are not completely bombproof. Keep spares for either system.