Click for Abeking Click for Delta Click for Westport Click for YF Listing Service Click for Nordhavn

Buying a new yacht -- do dealers "deal?"

Discussion in 'General Yachting Discussion' started by BenSeattle, Aug 13, 2006.

You need to be registered and signed in to view this content.
  1. BenSeattle

    BenSeattle New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2005
    Messages:
    33
    Location:
    Seattle/Kirkland
    After many weeks of examining, reading about and discussing virtually every boat worth considering, we may be ready to make an offer on a new yacht. We have no trade, which might make it simpler, but I'm wondering about the negotiating realm we're about to enter. Like automobile dealers, salesman have told me, "confidentially," that the owner/manager is 'really ready to make a deal on that boat.' Okay, what's THAT mean? Naturally, I want to purchase the most boat I can get for the money, but I don't want to be insulting. For example, while going through a 56' Carver, retailing at $1.2M, the salesman said "but you can get in this for well under a million." Hmmmm, at $960,000, that would be a 20 per cent discount. Question is, is that a very fair price or.... could I do even better?

    Any advice on the negotiating process would be greatly appreciated. Please know I certainly do not desire to send up a host of lowball offers in the hopes that a desperate seller bites. I'm looking to purchase the boat of my choice at a fair price. Or a great price. :)

    Thanks and happy cruising.
  2. YachtForums

    YachtForums Administrator

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2002
    Messages:
    20,353
    Location:
    South Florida
    Ben,

    I'll let others chime-in on negotiating. My better judgment falls victim to my emotions. But, there’s a good thread on YF titled “Purchasing a New Yacht”. This may provide some answers for you…

    http://www.yachtforums.com/forums/g...purchasing-new-yacht.html?highlight=negotiate


    BTW… I’ll assume you’re looking at the Voyager series if it’s a 56' Carver. These boats represent one of the best price-points in the market, as Carver squeezes a lot of amenities into these models, but herein lies the problem… is the space provided sufficient for extended “Voyagers”. If it’s a cruising couple, the answer might be yes… if you enjoy each other’s company. Throw kids into the equation and a cruise ship isn’t large enough!

    I have a friend that’s in the same boat as you are. He’s been keeping checks & balances on several brands & models. In this range, there’s one boat that tops a very short list. Have you looked at the 56’ Neptunus? I chose to do a review on this boat because I think it truly stands-out. We’re also beginning to see a lot more of them on the water too. Here’s a link to the review…

    http://www.yachtforums.com/forums/neptunus-yacht/5028-review-neptunus-56-flybridge.html


    I’ll follow this thread in hopes of finding some wisdom on negotiating. Currently, I’m in the market for a new girlfriend. ;)
  3. CaptTom

    CaptTom Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2006
    Messages:
    1,949
    Location:
    Palm Beach to Ft Lauderdale
    Ben,
    I'm sure yo uwill get a different answer from everyone who responds, but let me give you my $.02. First, if you have your heart set on the 56 Carver, could you have a backup dealer to use in case your dealer is not flexible enough? I do that when I buy a car (although there arte more car dealers than boat dealers). I'll work one dealer against the other for the best price. When you're dealing with $1M yachts, no salesman wants to lose that deal. Are you buying new, floor/demo model, one year old, etc. Those items could give you leverage in your negotioation. You may also want to pick out another backup boat, from a different line. Don't ever let a salesman know your heart is set on one particular boat, otherwise he has you. Let him know you are still deciding between the 56 Carver and 55 Sea Ray. Let him make an offer, tell him you want to compare against the Sea Ray, go back to him and ask him to sharpen the pencil with discounts of added features. Let him work for your money. Get them to throw in extras like full tank of fuel, captain training, free delivery, maybe slip space for a few weeks/months, depending were you are. I watched my dad, when he bought his first boat (a 34' Silverton) walk out on the dealer when he thought he was getting screwed. Dealer came back groveling, added a bunch of items at no charge. A good learning experience. And with the economy slowing, delaers don't want to lose deals
    Good luck.
    Capt Tom

    PS You may also want to consider buying at a boat show. Dealers give some of the best discounts on the last days.
  4. BenSeattle

    BenSeattle New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2005
    Messages:
    33
    Location:
    Seattle/Kirkland
    Boat show

    << PS You may also want to consider buying at a boat show. Dealers give some of the best discounts on the last days. >>

    Hmmmmm... this is interesting because in talking to one salesman, he insists that because there are so many people at the boat show (one coming along in Seattle in September) that the sellers don't offer nearly the deals as they would today. Harder to draw potential buyers on a sunny day in August, so the ones who do come in (me) will receive "better than boat show pricing." Perhaps not so true, huh?

    And no, I'm FAR from married to that Carver... I just had the brand on my list, saw the boat, said a few nice things and bam! -- ten minutes later the salesman was ready to start dealing. Now, I've made my money in sales so I understand the process, the good and the bad. It's said that to bring a customer onto a car lot costs the dealer some $300... that's why you can't get away without "saying hello to the Sales Manager." With yachts, that number is probably MUCH higher. Still, it brings us back to the original question: if new boat sellers are ready to deal within ten minutes of shaking hands hello, how much can they be worked for a price that would save 20 or 30 per cent off retail -- meaning HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS in my pocket?

    The Carver dealer, of course, sells the even more posh Marquis and from glancing at the catalog, that's a beautiful line. I'm assuming that if I take a boat straight off the dock with no custom options that I'll get a better deal, right?

    Hey and thanks for the link.

    Happy cruising.
  5. AMG

    AMG YF Moderator

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2004
    Messages:
    5,375
    Location:
    Sweden
    Getting 20 percent is a huge discount. Such margins I have only seen on really small boats. If you get 5 percent over here, you should be happy. And usually you get it as add-ons, which anyway is the best since you will always need extras on a new boat.

    Personally I never try to knock the price down, my experience is that if I pay the asked price (more or less), the after sales service is always much better..!

    This can also be called a better deal... :)
  6. YachtForums

    YachtForums Administrator

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2002
    Messages:
    20,353
    Location:
    South Florida
    Sounds like typical salesman jargon to me. September is the end of the boating season for most of the U.S. I can't see people getting in line to buy a boat in September - in the northern states - when they can't use it until the following April or May? Maybe I'm wrong... I haven't worked a show in your neck of the woods.

    With regards to "boat show pricing"... it's been my experience there are good deals to be had at the shows. Manufacturers and dealers spend a LOT of money for space/slips at these events and they want to move boats! Although I've only visited a few select shows around the U.S., I can tell you the prices I've seen at the Lauderdale and Miami International Shows are consistently favorable.

    If we're speaking about brokerage boats, it's not unusual for an owner/seller to help a broker cover the cost of a slip at one of these events. To me, this is pretty good indication of how serious the seller is. The prices I've seen on brokerage boats at these shows reflect the same.
  7. BenSeattle

    BenSeattle New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2005
    Messages:
    33
    Location:
    Seattle/Kirkland

    Your take makes a good deal of sense. Of course, despite Seattle's soggy winter reputation, many boaters (myself included) see the area as a year-round mecca for being on the water. Still, I do wonder about the timing of the two big shows up here: one in September -- to introduce the 2007 models I presume -- and another in January, likely to get people ordering for the summer season ahead. But since the weather here does change somewhat toward the end of September, I think it's logical that if a dealer can somehow move a boat then, he'll use price as means to do so.

    Happy cruising.
  8. Loren Schweizer

    Loren Schweizer YF Associate Writer

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2004
    Messages:
    1,352
    Location:
    Coral Gables/Ft. Laud., FL
    Lots of good thinking on this thread for Ben. Allow my ramblings...

    I concur with Lars in regards leaving a little on the table, so to speak, to achieve a more Lexus-like level of service satisfaction.

    Over the past quarter century, and aside from such deviations as the odd recession and 9/11, new boat sales follow a bellcurve which peaks in May/June, about what you'd expect. A major MLS used to publish this.

    The Fort Lauderdale & Miami boat shows-- and these are national in nature drawing from all corners of the U.S.-- see manufacturers sell a handfull in October and multiples of that in February. Again, this is over the long haul: the 2005 Ft. Laud. show attendance was comparatively small, and the expected pent-up demand for Miami 2006 did not exactly unpent.

    The Seattle crowd is tough-- they actually come out in the rain, for gosh sake, to attend boat shows.

    As CaptTom pointed out, the length of time that your particular heartthrob has languished on the lot carries an awful lot of weight in your negotiations: the ability to decipher the HIN on the transom will help greatly here. When the Mfg'er's floorplan runs out and bank curtailments begin on a particular hull, the dealer will indeed wield a sharp pencil.

    Ah, there's nothing like the smell of a new boat, all shiny, fresh bilges, so, yes, it's an emotional purchase.
    But don't lose sight of the fact that more stuff will need fixing during your first 12-months.
    That one-year old boat over there for sale? A nice price depreciation and all the niggling problems sorted out to boot.
  9. BenSeattle

    BenSeattle New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2005
    Messages:
    33
    Location:
    Seattle/Kirkland
    Really?

    << But don't lose sight of the fact that more stuff will need fixing during your first 12-months. That one-year old boat over there for sale? A nice price depreciation and all the niggling problems sorted out to boot. >>

    Now THIS is fascinating. Certainly when I drive a brand-new BMW off the lot, I'm not expecting to return just to get the radio working, but apparently the complexities of even today's yachts require the occasional out-of-the-box tweak. Good to know.

    But about that one-year old boat you're selling: Isn't it likely that the owner has it on the market because there's some problems or issues he can't fix?

    Just wondering.
  10. KCook

    KCook Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2005
    Messages:
    1,160
    Location:
    Phoenix
    Well, I haven't bought/sold any yachts. But in the production boat world most of these first year sales are the result of the buyer not using his new boat anywhere near as often as he expected. Tieing up a lot of his $$ without much "return". So he bails. I expect this happens in the yacht realm as well.

    Kelly Cook
  11. Loren Schweizer

    Loren Schweizer YF Associate Writer

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2004
    Messages:
    1,352
    Location:
    Coral Gables/Ft. Laud., FL
    Kelly brings up a good point. And, there are a million other reasons why one-year old boats come up on the market.

    Production boats are complex. With a lot of the bits outsourced ( and who made the call to procure that pump--the Purchasing Dep't. for, perhaps, cost reasons, or did the Engineering Dep't. demand a pricier one?) from other manufacturers and put together by fallible human hands, no, this ain't yer BMW.
  12. YachtForums

    YachtForums Administrator

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2002
    Messages:
    20,353
    Location:
    South Florida
    I'd have to concur with Kelly's statement... often, boats aren't used as much as anticipated, or priorities change, or family and business issues come up, etc, etc. It's rare to see someone selling a new boat due to bugs. In recent years, this has become less of an issue as components have continually evolved.

    For yachts, which have dozens of integrated systems and 100's of components that ALL have to work seamlessly, this is substantially more challenging. Also, due to the nature of custom built yachts that have specially fabricated features (usually per the owner's request), you are working with one-off, pioneering type mechanisms/systems.

    If you've ever invented and/or developed a product, or a technology, you'll completely understand the hurdles that builders face. Consumer type products often go through multiple evolution cycles. On custom built yachts... you've got one shot to get it right! This why custom built AND production built boats will sometimes have a few bugs to work out initially.
  13. YachtForums

    YachtForums Administrator

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2002
    Messages:
    20,353
    Location:
    South Florida
    Whoops! I didn't see Loren's post. I think he summed it up very well.
  14. YachtForum

    YachtForum Publisher/Admin

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2002
    Messages:
    1,310
    Location:
    South Florida
    FLIBS is this weekend. Cut your best deal! Haggle, barter, trade your wife... whatever it takes! :D