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Buyers Trapped in Feud with Sunseeker...

Discussion in 'Sunseeker Yacht' started by YachtForums, Jul 29, 2019.

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  1. mapism

    mapism Senior Member

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    Wow, SNO of the Pirro bros fame? And for 2 decades? I'm lost for words.
    The next time someone will criticize Marinemax as a dealer, I'll have a laugh. :D
  2. alvareza

    alvareza Member

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    Lots of Porsches with cup holders. Including some pretty cool ones in 911s. Though best car I ever had was a ‘97 993, no cup holder. Never should have sold it.
  3. olderboater

    olderboater Senior Member

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    A few thoughts in this Euro styling vs. Hatteras etc discussion.

    There is no universal consensus on what a yacht should be or how one is used. I'm of the school of thought that sees Hatteras and Sunseeker as very different boats and then I see Ferretti as somewhere in between the two as I would also see Heesen and Westport for that matter.

    While European and US tastes and cruising styles may be different, they both occasionally approach the other. I'll just give a couple of examples. European builders were very much of the mindset that on boats in the 60-100' range, galleys should be down. However, US buyers started requesting galleys up and open into the salon and to the lower helm. European builders accommodated them. Then to their surprise, European buyers liked the galley up and started buying that version. This is really no different that the battle in home design between formal dining and kitchen separate from living and the open concept without walls between kitchen and living.

    Tastes evolve. Other factors also play a role in influencing purchases. Marina costs and beam may influence many buyers in Europe but then there are others who will select the boat they prefer regardless. Similarly, draft is a far more considered issue to the East Coast US buyer as they cruise the coast and the Bahamas.

    I found range to be a huge varying factor in selection. The production European boats on the whole lacked what I considered to be adequate long range cruising capability. I've seen some change though even in the last few years.

    Another example I'd use. In larger boats I see other factors differentiating between builders and between the US and European buyer. In the same size boat I often see the European buyer wanting the extra stateroom and accepting that means smaller staterooms. Well, that certainly makes sense for two reasons. First, look at land homes in Europe vs. the US. The average home in the US and average bedroom size is much larger. Natural then what is acceptable in a boat would vary. Second, a larger percentage of boats in Europe seem to target the Charter market and that leads to all the possible staterooms.

    I also think trends are dangerous to overemphasize because they assume all buyers are the same and all builders appeal to the same buyer. If so, you wouldn't have nearly as many styling variations. Speed is a simple example. In the 60-100' range, Riva, Pershing and others appeal to a different buyer than Sunseeker or Princess, one wanting more speed. Above 100', the traditional European builders targeted the buyer happy with cruising at 12-14 knots. However, Westport targeted the ability to cruise at up to 20 knots and then European builders like Heesen went to Fast Displacement and aluminum vs. steel in part of their line and similar speeds. And of course, there are always the outlier's, the custom boats and then a brand like AB that builds 140' and 145' with top speed over 40 knots.

    Then there are all the personal factors that enter in. Liam doesn't target the Sunseeker or Princess buyer although some may look at those brands and at Delta. Just because some buyers may look at Hatteras and Sunseeker doesn't mean their appeal is the same. There are those who won't consider Westport because it's glass, not metal, but now the production European companies are building larger and larger glass boats.

    We all have personal factors that influence our choices. I insist on upper and lower helms and that eliminates Hatteras 60-100' from my consideration. One can argue against me all they want but that factor has kept me from buying one. On the other hand, as a former Sunseeker owner, I can say without hesitancy that today I would not buy one for delivery in the US going through the builder to distributor to dealer model. Their fiasco with Obey weighs heavily on my mind and that makes it tough as we bought a Manhattan 65 to use for our last Loop trip and still don't see any boat in design that we'd select over the Manhattan 66 (and think the 52 is a great design for the loop) but if we were buying today we'd do all we could to find another option. Similarly, with the string of ownership issues and changes I wouldn't select Moonen in larger boats today.

    Trying to define the markets on the basis of just one or two factors is impossible. Too many variables. That's why both Capt J and Liam may be right but both wrong at the same time.
  4. 993RSR

    993RSR Senior Member

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    Yep had 2 993's but my current ride is a 997.2. Still classic but the end of the line for me.
  5. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    The ones I drove. Yeah that only holds a can of soda, nothing larger. And then it was directly in front of the stereo and a/c vent, blocking access.
  6. bobhorn

    bobhorn Member

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    This is for you youngster bemoaning the lack of or placement of Porsche cup holders. Definitely no cup holders, also no radio, no A/C, no roll up windows. None of them wussy accessories.
    Sept 1976 4 reduced.jpg
  7. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    Yeah and a stock 2020 V6 mustang would out handle it, out run it on a straight away and out break it, and has cup holders!!!!! hehehehhee :D
  8. bobhorn

    bobhorn Member

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    Yeah, but a '58 Mustang wouldn't and din't.
  9. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    Didn't exist........until 1964.
  10. Pascal

    Pascal Senior Member

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    A foot of beam is worth 10’ of LOA... so dockage cost is why most euro boats are so narrow?

    problem with Hatteras is that it took them forever to modernize their designs and remember that people buy boats to be outside especially at night during the day, having a large aft deck just a few steps from the water is great... not an extra set of stairs to a FB. . A balcony on the back isn’t what people want. Now the newest designs larger aft decks but it took the 10 or 15 years to get there.

    Personally I ve never understood why euro builders have completely ignored skylounges. Many owners want them and they are wonderful, increasing the available space on board. Right now sitting anchored in the Exumas, hot sun and 90+.... nice and comfortable skylounge !

    now how the heck did this thread shifted to volkswagens and phantoms 58’ mustangs!! :)
  11. alvareza

    alvareza Member

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    Cup holders...
  12. German Yachting

    German Yachting Senior Member

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    MCY seems to have gotten the hint as they are releasing sky lounge versions of their yachts. Too bad they seem to be lacking in speed and range when compared to their competitors.
  13. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    Seriously lacking in speed and range. Also the quality of the interior leaves a lot to be desired.
  14. Pascal

    Pascal Senior Member

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    There was one next to us in Staniel yesterday. Very flashy, nice beam. The amount of stainless steel on that boat is way over the top and maintenance is going be crazy.
  15. bliss

    bliss Senior Member

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    Any new developments re Rick Obey fuss?
  16. olderboater

    olderboater Senior Member

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    On the Turner case, Hearing scheduled on October 19 regarding inadequacy of responses from Sunseeker. Also, in August, Turner filed for summary judgement against Obey. A lot of privilege logs and responses to requests but nothing substantive in terms of moving the case along.

    Last thing on Velvet Beach was a motion in June for extension of time.

    On Obey vs. Sunseeker USA, an order confirming the arbitration award in favor of Sunseeker in the initial case and now requests for information so Sunseeker can collect it's judgement. It appears that the courts ruled that the arbitration provisions were enforceable, but now Sunseeker has a problem collecting.

    In essence, a lot of nothing and every indication is that when all is said and done and the buyers do win, they'll never see the money.
  17. 993RSR

    993RSR Senior Member

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    This is crazy to my un-legal brain
    Buyer pays funds for a specific boat. Obey does not deliver boat. Where is the buyers funds? They do not become anything other than purchase funds for a specific boat. Obey can have all the warranty or dealer complaints he wants.
    How did this become an acceptable shell game?
  18. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    Obey spent the buyers money on other things. Sunseeker never recieved the payment, so legally they're not responsible for giving the buyer the boat, and obey has no money to get their money back from.......sad state of affairs........not sure how it will work out. In a perfect world, the dealer SHOULD be required to have a bond high enough to cover things like this.......but......well......
  19. RER

    RER Senior Member

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    I’m not being at all facetious here, but if I were Rick Obey at this point I’m thinking what happened to guys like Don Aronow and Mickey Thompson might always be somewhere in the back of his mind. And maybe it should be.
  20. 993RSR

    993RSR Senior Member

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    Sounds like misappropriation by a fiduciary. Criminal. Where is the state on this?