Bridgewatch/60ton cert. useful?

Since the bridgewatchman ticket is a Canadian specific item, few below 49N even known it exists. It has no STCW equivalent or recognition, and for that reason I believe you would be better off investing the money in training for certificates that are transferable and have international recognition.

As far as BST goes, it's just proof that you have been shown how to help save your butt if things go wrong. It doesn't mean you are a seaman or are of any value as a crewmember.

The time it takes to complete the watchman's course would be better spent actually working at sea if you can snag a berth on a tug or ferry. Three months real sea time is more than most yacht crews see in a year and would provide a better foundation than classroom time at this stage of your career. You'll need the money to help pay for the training you need later on. Or to live on while you are unemployed and looking for work.

I agree with Marmot, I don't think the 60 ton ticket will help you much better outside of Canada. There are only two forms of Licensing that are acknowledged worldwide and those are USCG and MCA. I think you're better off going for your entry level MCA Captains license if at all possible...... or mates license that can be converted to a Captains license with the proper seatime.

Right now you are going to have A LOT of competition in getting a deckhands job. There are a lot of seasoned deckhands looking for work. However, getting a job in a good marina like Bahia Mar in Fort Lauderdale as a dock attendant and you may get to know enough crew and captains to get a job on a yacht.

I am not real familiar with the MCA system but I believe there is a license you can get and then add the proper seatime and it turns into a better license.

Hi,

I think it is the same with any licensing route. You don't start off with a Master Mariners Qualification as your first one ...... Do You?

NO, but what I was trying to get across is that there is a license you can get with Little or NO seatime, and then when you have achieved the sea-time they automatically upgrade your license without needing more schooling or taking a test, etc. For example, you can get a USCG 200 ton mate license and when you have the proper seatime it becomes a 200 ton master with no further schooling or test taking.

You might want to do some research on the upgrade thing Capt J. If you have a 150 ton ticket you can get an auto tonnage upgrade to 200 when you've collected the sea time (46CFR 11.422 ) but you are still a mate and still need to test to upgrade to master.

Little or no seatime is an MCA/RYA "affirmative action" sort of thing. While you can become an MCA master mariner with a grand total of 50 days sea time, it takes 1080 days at sea, really at sea - not lounging alongside in St. Maarten or Fort Lauderdale -to get the USCG 200 ton (500 itc) valid for international service. And just to put this in another perspective, it takes 1080 days at sea to get an AB rating for international service (46CFR 12.05-7) ... that is just to serve as a deckhand.

The automatic upgrade you mentioned is part of the new licensing system for unlimited tickets, a 3rd mate will be upgraded to 2nd mate after spending a year sailing as 3rd mate then after a year as 2nd will test for chief mate and master. Even the limited master 200 tons upgrade from mate takes a year sailing as mate, not just being "signed on" at a marina or yard as well as testing.

When I origionally tested for my USCG 100 ton master, I could have taken the test for a 200 ton Mate at the same time. I would have been 100 ton master with a 200 ton mate endorsement and with the seatime my license would have automatically changed into a 200 ton master

And if the Queen had b**ls ...

That might be the case for a near coastal or inland ticket under the new system but those certs are only available to US citiziens and are worthless for international service as they do not have an STCW equivalent. They are only valid in U.S. waters so having one doesn't do much for those longing to serve as Master Mariner under God onboard a big white boat with a red flag.

If you had taken the mate test you would still have to have BST and AFF plus test for unlimited radar observer and celestial, have met the requirements to hold an AB, and have sailed 18 months on an ocean route while holding your mate's ticket in order to have a 200 ton ocean license.

The only free lunch is at the MCA buffet.

Amen

Hi,

I don't think they have that any more citing budget constraints

But him being a non US citizen he cannot hold a USCG license anyways.

A 100 ton master can be nothing more then a Near Coastal. And, yes you would be upgraded to a 200 ton near coastal with the seatime. For a 200 ton ocean you only need AB, lifeboat/survival, and basic safety training.

For a 500 gross registered ton USCG Ocean master one would need
1080 days of total career seatime
540 days on near coastal routes or ocean routes
720 days as OICNW or Master while holding a license
360 days of licensed service on a vessel over 50grt
90 days in the last 3 years on a vessel of at least 50 grt

There's that darn echo again ...

Hi,

Marmot- Where did you find that little nugget of information?

An MCA Master Mariner will be every bit as highly experienced and qualified as the USCG Equivalent.

As far as I am aware:-

There is no such qualification as a Yacht Master Mariner. The current upper level yacht qualification is a Master Class 4 Endorsed for service on Yachts.

The MCA- Marine and Coastguard Agency issue all Certificates of Competency both Merchant Navy to guys and gals who have done cadetships and completed either an HND or HNC plus the pre requisite amount of verified time at sea and Yacht Endorsed Certificates of Competency where the foundation knowledge and training are not as stringent nor the Sea Time requirements as well documented.

A Commercial Ticket can be endorsed for use aboard yachts but a yacht Ticket cannot be endorsed for use on Commercial ships.

I know of a yacht where the GT is over 4000. The Master was very willing to take on as bosun a guy who had done the last 18 months of the build as the only deck crew for most of it but only held a Y4 Ticket. The MCA told him in no uncertain terms tat this would not be permitted under any circumstances.

The Master and other members of the Bridge Team had also indicated that they were willing to work with this guy and help him through into the commercial qualification world but this was also knocked on the head at birth.

I should have put a little cynical icon in there. I thought it was obvious that my reference to master mariner of yachts was tongue in cheek. But thinking back on it and judging by the number of CVs that cross my desk from holders of MCA/RYA yacht limited certificates and USCG 100 ton guys who describe themselves as “master mariners” it looks like I should have made it clear that I was being sarcastic.

The international standard for unlimited licenses is very high and thanks to STCW is becoming a real standard rather than a stew of varying requirements. This is reflected in the acceptance of certificates within the “white list” members. Unfortunately for those employing limited license holders there is a wide gulf in the qualifications and experience required to obtain a certificate.

Yes, and that is a product of that wide gulf in qualifications and experience. As a result of what I can only describe as a fit of misplaced benevolence (or some kind of altered state of reality induced by too close a relationship with a yacht training firm or two) the MCA instituted the yacht license scheme and created a dead-end subclass of mini-mariners without making it very clear that the participants in this system sacrifice professional alternatives for a rapid climb up a very short ladder.

There are a couple of issues in that case. The prospective bosun had no documented training or experience applicable or acceptable to the MCA for service on vessels over 3000 tons, the barrier beyond which international law requires a much higher standard of training and verifiable experience as a mariner performing in a professional crew environment.

The other issue is that Y4 is a yacht limited engineer certificate and is not a deck certificate. The bosun is the senior member of the unlicensed deck crew and as such has a role in training and supervision of those under him. He is also responsible to ensure safe working conditions are maintained and deck equipment is safe to operate and fit for the service intended. Regardless of how good the guy might be, the regulations enforce the concept that crewmembers required by the Safe Manning Certificate must have a certain level of training and experience before being assigned those duties.

It is a shame that international standardization and the requirements for formal training have effectively closed the route to advancement taken by generations of “hawsepipers. The merchant fleet is losing a priceless resource by pricing self-improvers out of the industry. This also closes a door to the holders of yacht limited licenses. Is this “fair” to the Y4 bosun wannabe? Maybe not, but it certainly is fair to those who would depend on his experience and knowledge to keep them safe.