List Your Boat Click for Llebroc Click for Westport Click for Ocean Alexander Click for CL Yachts

Bertram Closing Merritt Island Facility?

Discussion in 'Bertram Yacht' started by Trinimax, Sep 15, 2014.

You need to be registered and signed in to view this content.
  1. T.K.

    T.K. Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2007
    Messages:
    1,020
    Location:
    Cairo - Egypt
    Bertram built the 360 in 2008 and it was certainly a gorgeous boat. It was a worthy descendant of the 31. I have one ;).......I guess now it will become a rare collectors boat and the price should double ;).
  2. franzmerenda

    franzmerenda Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2009
    Messages:
    121
    Location:
    La Spezia, Italy
    Restore 31 mold/molds, look at all upgrades the most passionate people have made (can easily catch these on their website), put a proper pair of Yanmars, make some change inside (a stall shower for example), do a proper homework on production costs, economies of scale and soever (a Huge Chinese Financial Group is capable of that) and I do guess you can find a ready market.
    The 31 is in fiberglass, what Riva Aquarama is in wood; a benchmark.
    And you can sell them in the 300/350K market (see Tiara).
    Also the new 54 wasn't a bad boat, while I agree with TK, the 360 is a good shape boat (think of Moppies heritage)...production quality apart.
    As an Italian, I regret to say that one of the weak points of last generation Berts have been, with all due respect, arch. Zuccon upgrades!
    IMMO
  3. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2005
    Messages:
    13,936
    Location:
    Fort Lauderdale
    You are using false Data to make a point. YOU'RE TRYING TO COMPARE A 71' BOAT TO A 60' BOAT TO TRY TO PROVE YOUR POINT.

    The link you posted was using C30 engines, no longer in production and a different hull with data back to 2007 and the numbers are in MPH. And then comparing that to a Jim Smith with current C32 engines. The numbers you're posting were faked anyways. A C30 at 80% load burns 112 GPH no matter what sportfish you put it in.

    A 60 GT with C32 1600 hp Cats cruises at 31-32 knots is at 80% load burning 120 GPH. I should know I ran the boat for sea-trials for the factory. This boat was a 2012 with hardtop and outriggers and no other equipment.

    You are comparing a Jim Smith that is much larger 71' versus 60' to prove your numbers, which just makes it look even worse that you're using false data to prove your point. The Jim Smith is 11' longer and about 40% larger overall and still posts much better efficiency numbers.

    SHALL WE COMPARE THE NUMBERS OF A 70' GT TO THE 71' JIM SMITH YOU POSTED SO WE HAVE AN APPLES TO APPLES COMPARISON?????????? When they do and release the test numbers?

    As for the Cat Cay tuna days there were many 50'+ there.....2 of the 57' Revenges, several of the Jim Smiths, a few Rybovichs, Strikers and others.
  4. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2005
    Messages:
    13,936
    Location:
    Fort Lauderdale
    The Bertram name is more of a liability than it is an asset. You have a lot of upset owners with a lot of unresolved major issues out there, a lot of bad blood for the name. So what is the name worth, they don't have any designs and hulls anyone wants. You would be better off starting a company from scratch and it would probably be easier to build market share than to try to revitalize Bertram.
  5. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2005
    Messages:
    13,936
    Location:
    Fort Lauderdale
    It had nothing to do with Bertram doing ANYTHING high tech in their layup. Bertram used CHEAP coring. Then paid an air conditioning contractor, Mabru, to layup their hulls. Mabru's guys mixed up the resin with way too much hardener to lay them up fast, which then made them brittle because well they don't know what they're doing with fiberglass layup.
  6. ArcanisX

    ArcanisX Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2009
    Messages:
    309
    Location:
    Tel Aviv.
    Yeah, this seems to be pretty much a consensus in this thread.
    However, if there's one thing executives hate, it's signing a high profile loss write-off. Such as, you know, shutting down well-known historic brand that's probably valued in "intangible" of millions somewhere on the balance.
    So I would kind of expect a prolonged horse-dragging without much attention to vital signs :rolleyes:. And guess what, who knows, a miracle of some kind just might happen somewhere along the line, there are precedents.
  7. olderboater

    olderboater Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2013
    Messages:
    6,814
    Location:
    Fort Lauderdale
    You're right except sometimes when there are management or ownership changes, that is easier as they are able to say "We closed this non-profitable segment" and the blame falls on those before them. Also, the "intangible" writeoff, any goodwill that might have been on the books, would have to take place now regardless of future plans. The moment they shut things down, unless they had them restarted within the same accounting period, then everything is going to be written down. But businesses get by with these one time writedown's they can attribute to discontinued businesses and publish numbers such as EBITDA before discontinued operations and it gets bought. It is something I've long disliked but instead of just saying "we lost $1 million" businesses will start pulling things out and talk about "losses before." So suddenly it's profit from continuing operations $3 million. Loss from discontinued operation $1 million. Cost of closing discontinued operation $3 million. The one place it can create big problems is in meeting loan covenants.

    It's not just the intangibles like goodwill that have to be written down, it's the molds, the equipment, all inventory. And auditors have become much stricter on forcing those writedowns much earlier in the process.
  8. RER

    RER Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2009
    Messages:
    1,431
    Location:
    Newport Beach CA
    Molds and other equipment including tenant improvements would have been charged off or been depreciated all along. Inventory? In terms of materials, W.I.P. or finished goods I doubt there is any.
  9. olderboater

    olderboater Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2013
    Messages:
    6,814
    Location:
    Fort Lauderdale
    They would have been depreciated all along but at this point they would lose all remaining value. If they previously had half their useful life remaining, now that entire amount is gone. Leasehold improvements were barely depreciated no longer than they'd been in the facility. Now they have to be written down to zero value.

    In terms of materials, I doubt any boats in process or finished as they shipped the one build to Italy. But I'm sure a lot of odds and ends of materials were sitting around when they closed.

    I stick by my original statement. In a situation like this there are still very significant write-downs. Then on top of that you add in actual costs such as any severance, any costs of terminating the lease, costs of moving any items you decide to keep and storing them. Plus if they had accrued any incentives granted from the local government, those now also go by the wayside.

    You are talking a multi-million dollar one time loss on shutting this operation down. However, with Ferretti's current ownership, taking a write-down is really not a problem, nothing like if they were a publicly traded company.
  10. Capt Ralph

    Capt Ralph Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2004
    Messages:
    9,819
    Location:
    Satsuma, FL
    In another part of the world; Did I read somewhere that there were some Bertrams getting built in Australia? Real Bertrams? Molds? Licensed?
    Any relation to Bertram USA?
  11. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2005
    Messages:
    13,936
    Location:
    Fort Lauderdale
    That would've been Southern Cross and over a decade ago, don't think they're still in business. They did buy some of the old molds and were producing them over there. Seperate entity, they bought the molds from Bertram USA, Bertram USA crushed the rest.

    To be honest with you. All of the old (sub 2000) Bertram boats ride horrible (as do the Hatteras' and Vikings) compared to almost all of the newer 2000+ production SF boats and hull designs. Hull design has come a long way since then.
  12. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2005
    Messages:
    13,936
    Location:
    Fort Lauderdale
    Funny thing is they can't figure out what direction they want to go in. They made the 80' molds over in Italy and shipped them over on a freighter, with hull #1 already laid up in it. They unloaded the molds, then claimed it was a US laid hull. Then they buy this factory here......now sell the factory....now move production back to Italy if there ever is any.......
  13. ArcanisX

    ArcanisX Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2009
    Messages:
    309
    Location:
    Tel Aviv.
    True. Yet another one of them centuries-old gambits :cool: "Previous management FUBeyandAnyRepair'ed it, so we have to move on".
    Can't agree with that part, with all due respect. Goodwill represents a potential benefit from brand name recognition. Just looking at the substance of it, it doesn't just disappear the moment you stop production, much like molds and machinery does not. Nor "at the end of period". I will even argue that goodwill, where it is material, is among the "last out" - due to effects illustrated by this very thread, where some people will dream of revivals till the end.
    That's not the source of abundant accounting shenanigans around intangibles which I suspect are truer source of your "long dislike", too - it's more about the sad fact that goodwill cannot be measured accurately and up to date, marked to market, inventorized e t.c. Therefore when management looks for whatever number is the easiest to stretch to paint the wanted picture, intangibles pop up, like, naturally.

    May I humbly suggest again my earlier definition of these kinds of processes as a "prolonged horse-dragging without much attention to vital signs"? :)
    Well literally more of a hull-dragging. Or just the lay-up, so even more, a keel-dragging... hmm I seem to be getting dragged away...
  14. olderboater

    olderboater Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2013
    Messages:
    6,814
    Location:
    Fort Lauderdale
    I'm not going to get into a long discussion of Goodwill or accounting policies, either FASB, IAS or otherwise here and bore everyone to death. Just suffice it to say I've been involved in many acquisitions and in shut downs of acquired brands and as recently as 30 months ago in public reporting and I'm quite up to date with how auditing firms are now looking at goodwill. Things are considerably tighter than they once were.

    It's really all irrelevant though as the owners in this situation are not impacted one way or the other. Ferretti is no longer a public company and to the Chinese parent, Bertram and accounting for Bertram is very insignificant. Plus Shandong is state owned so not like they're concerned over something like this.
  15. ayachtguy

    ayachtguy Senior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2005
    Messages:
    64
    Location:
    Florida
    Interesting that Riva was brought up as an icon of quality in this discussion, since Riva built Bertrams in Italy back in the early '70s.

    And beautifully finished, they were, too!
  16. olderboater

    olderboater Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2013
    Messages:
    6,814
    Location:
    Fort Lauderdale
    Consolidating manufacturing has been a Ferretti strategy the last few years. Riva is unique within Ferretti in not currently sharing their manufacturing facility with anyone.
  17. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2005
    Messages:
    13,936
    Location:
    Fort Lauderdale

    Perhaps Riva will be sharing their production facility once again???
  18. olderboater

    olderboater Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2013
    Messages:
    6,814
    Location:
    Fort Lauderdale
    Maybe they have big plans for Bertram. They sure do for Riva. 50 meter build next. Then 68 meter and they're planning on continuing up to 100 meters.
  19. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2005
    Messages:
    13,936
    Location:
    Fort Lauderdale
    And, this is where all builders screw up........length greed.
  20. olderboater

    olderboater Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2013
    Messages:
    6,814
    Location:
    Fort Lauderdale
    It does start to worry you if you like the small models like the Iseo and Aquarive and Rivarama. Might be good for the bottom line but keeps leaving voids in the industry.