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Bad Experience with Sea Tow; Sag Harbor

Discussion in 'General Yachting Discussion' started by Ken Bracewell, Aug 18, 2008.

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  1. Ken Bracewell

    Ken Bracewell Senior Member

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    I had a terrible experience with Sea Tow in Sag Harbor yesterday and thought that I should share my experience with this forum.

    While I was running some guests back from water skiing yesterday morning I had my eye on a 55' Hinckley coming out of the inner harbor and which was on a converging course with me. The poor guy (owner/operator) cut two buoys and ran his $2.5M beauty clear over a cluster of rocks doing 30kts. Within a minute the stern was under water and it was clear she beyond any quick damage control and headed to the bottom in about 20' of water. We pulled alongside and took a very panicked wife aboard along with the husband/skipper and a young college student who came along to help out (not a captain, but pretty knowledgable- poor guy was eating a piece of toast in the galley when it happened). Since the wife seemed to be going into shock, I steamed over to the "Rena" and offloaded the husband and wife with my crew so they could treat her. The deckhand and I then took my smaller tender back to the Hinckley while my mate contacted the Coast Guard and Harbor Master.
    About 10 minutes had passed from the initial grounding until we returned to the doomed vessel. Since she was mostly submerged and only floating due to an air pocket in the forward cabin, there wasn't much we could do but grab a few valuables through the hatches in the overhead and then wait for the cavalry to arrive.
    The first boat on the scene was Towboat US and he wanted to put a line on immediately. Since we could see other salvage boats and authorities coming from every direction, I instructed the guy to wait until we saw who had the most appropriate equipment to best handle the situation. In the end there were two center consoles with outboards from Sea Tow and Towboat US had a center console AND a large tug boat with twin inboard diesels (clearly the boat to tow the Hinckley to shallow water). What Towboat US lacked, though, was an oil boom to surround the boat in order to mitigate damage to the environment. Sea Tow was happy to tell me that they had a boom and that we could use it if they got the entire salvage job. I had learned that the owner of the Hinckley is a member of Sea Tow so I tried to reason with them that they would get paid for their services, but that I believed Towboat US was better equipped for the job at hand. Sea Tow denied us the use of the boom and basically sat on the sidelines and offered criticism of how the situation was being handled.
    In the end, nobody was harmed and the Hinckley was towed to the beach in about 5' of water (at low tide) where the local marinas all kicked in their oil booms to surround the boat.
    Now, this may just be a rant on my part, but I am thoroughly disgusted with how the situation was handled by Sea Tow! What good is a membership if you can't even use it for something that should have just been something that any bystander would do to protect the environment that we all enjoy?!
    I for one will do whatever I can to avoid using that operation. I hope someone from this forum has a way to relay this to the corporate level and revocation of their franchise is considered!
  2. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

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    Hey Ken,
    Hopefully Sea Tow, Sag Harbor and Sea Tow corporate follow this forum. As a local independent captain who goes on many local boats, and a carrier of a Sea Tow Professional Mariners membership since 2002 I read your post with great interest.
    We all know it's a competative world out there, but SHAME.
    Ed
  3. Pascal

    Pascal Senior Member

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    down here the rivalry between the guys in red and the guys in yellow has excalated to fists fights at least once...
  4. Ken Bracewell

    Ken Bracewell Senior Member

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    I spoke with Joe Frohnhoefer who is the head of Sea Tow today. He was diplomatic, but stands behind his "bumble bees".
  5. PropBet

    PropBet Senior Member

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    Is Everything!
    It's unfortunate that when you have a situation like this, the best people (as in this case) can do is argue about "me me me" and it becomes a 'who's going to pay me my money' issue, rather than a greatest good for the greatest number. Protect the environment, see that the crew and company are safe, and do whatever is needed to recover the boat safely.
  6. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

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    Wonder if he'll proudly post this story in the magazine he sends me each year where he boasts about all the good they do.
  7. Marblehead01945

    Marblehead01945 Member

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    I can't help but think about what kind of great advertising and good will one can achieve in business by helping out in instances like this. It surely would have looked even better in the local newspaper (and website) had they helped out. What really distresses me is what would happen should a life be at risk and the towboat and personnel being in a position to help. Is it company policy to stand aside for all non members? I wonder what the protocol is.

    Roger
  8. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

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    Roger,
    You're not from around here. If you could see what's is Sag Harbor right now to watch Sea Tow refusing to help you'd really understand what they did to themselves as far as advertising. Too bad they didn't understand. Joe Frohnhoefer from Sea Tow would have done much better to say 'woops, we screwed up and will do better in the future'. BTW, what may have gotten burried in Ken's telling and what makes this even worse is:
    "I had learned that the owner of the Hinckley is a member of Sea Tow so I tried to reason with them that they would get paid for their services"
  9. Ken Bracewell

    Ken Bracewell Senior Member

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    Apparently someone at Sea Tow reads this forum. I received a couple of emails last night expressing their displeasure at reading my post. They say that there were some facts that I am not aware of, but which I won't post on behalf of someone else. I did, however, invite Joe F to subscribe to the Forum and post his views on this subject. I'm hoping he takes my suggestion as we may all learn something from this incident (other than "don't hit the rocks :D ).
  10. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

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    Joe F. is a very smart man and a very good business person. I for one would love to learn from him. I understand that the salvage and tow laws are very complex, but I learned early on that you render the assistance needed first; then you think about business and pay, etc. Granted that's not very savvy thinking, but that's the way it has to be on the water. Lives (marine & human) depend on that. You have boom. Why not drop it or give it to the other company to drop and do a deal there and then for the cost. That seems simple. The marinas in Sag would certainly appreciate the protection, and this thread would be about a whole different subject.
    I hope Sea Tow will enter this thread so we can understand their reasoning or even to just say "whoops" (we all screw up once in a while). Then we might have a better idea of what to expect.
  11. Marblehead01945

    Marblehead01945 Member

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    I'm sure there are complex salvage and tow laws and I look forward to a SeaTow reply but there was a reason why the Good Samaritan law and Duty to Rescue exist. I'm certainly not a lawyer and the gentlemen from Sea Tow probably know this stuff inside and out but it certainly makes common sense to me at least, that if you CAN help, HELP.

    Roger
  12. Pascal

    Pascal Senior Member

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    i hope there is more to the story than the childish behavior of refusing to deploy pollution control booms because somebody else got the job... if so, there is no excuse for this kind of behavior.

    i wonder what the salvage value of a sunk Hinckley 55 is, but at that point, it's just a hulk of fiberglass, not much more. little salvage rights to be claimed...
  13. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

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    Brought up right away from these waters (shallow, relatively low salt content) she's still got a lot of value. Hose her out, dry her off, toss the electronics, pickle the mechanicals and she'll be good to go. Oh yeah...fix the hole;) .
  14. Pascal

    Pascal Senior Member

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    and rewire the boat, redo the air conditioning, all the soft goods... the window to save the engines after saltwater immersion is very narrow...
  15. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

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    Sounds like they moved fast, and (like I said) low salt content. I've seen motors come back fine after more that a week under water here. You just have to move fast once it's up. Plus it's a Hinkley, but if the salvers don't think it's worth it I'll take it off their hands for $100 :cool:
    Still waiting to see input from Sea Tow.:confused:
  16. Ken Bracewell

    Ken Bracewell Senior Member

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    The engines were shut down before they were submerged so that's something.
    Although I haven't received an email from Joe, it is possible that he has signed up and his membership is waiting confirmation from Carl who is floating away in a tropical storm.
  17. Seafarer

    Seafarer Senior Member

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    If electrical power was cut before she went down (unlikely - they probably kept it live to run pumps) then even the electronics are potentially salvageable out of Long Island Sound. A thorough flush with running fresh water and a week or so in a warm and dry place before testing with juice to them. You'd be surprised at how robust modern electronics are. LCD displays, on the other hand... they might have issues.
  18. Ken Bracewell

    Ken Bracewell Senior Member

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    The power wasn't cut until we had her on the beach (the windshield wipers were running as they towed her) but I don't think all the electronics were submerged.
  19. ychtcptn

    ychtcptn Senior Member

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    OK- I will ask the question everybody wants to know!!


    Where are the Pic's?
  20. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

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    Not the Hinkley, but from around the corner the week before. This fellow thought that, after finding that the outgoing tide left him high on the rocks and his buds (3 that you see plus one pushing on the port quarter) couldn't muscle it off, it'd be a good idea to lower his 3 outboards until the skegs touched the rocks and power off.
    IMG_0548.JPG
    Nobody hurt this time.
    No shortage of whoops up here this time of year. It's like a race to get it in before the season ends.