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Azimut 85', 95', 116' 2004-2009 any updated experience?

Discussion in 'Azimut Yacht' started by ky1e, Sep 25, 2016.

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  1. ky1e

    ky1e Guest

    Anyone who has owned, worked on, or knows firsthand experience on these boats care to share your thoughts? A lot of the threads on these boats were old threads about smaller boats, or while they were under warranty.

    I live in FL, USA and they seem to be priced quite reasonably. I'm not sure if boats this old would had their bugs worked out, or if the nightmare stories would get worse and worse as these boats age.

    The boat would be used on the Gulf side of FL, brought to the Keys, Bahamas for coastal cruising (1 week or less at a time), and as a mothership to a 42' Yellowfin Center Console.
  2. olderboater

    olderboater Senior Member

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    You answered one of my questions here.
    Gulf, Coastal and Bahamas. How many people do you intend to have aboard, outside of crew? For that cruising, then 85' might be the best size and 116' bigger than you need or want and more expensive to operate than you would like.
  3. ky1e

    ky1e Guest

    Any where from a min of 6 to a max of 12. For family trips, I have 4 teenage children and a wife. The kids like to bring a friend so family trips are usually a total of 10 (6 family plus 4 friends). When I go on guy fishing trips I bring about 2-4 guy neighbors. Couples trips usually have 3-4 couples and no kids.
  4. olderboater

    olderboater Senior Member

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    Well, most 85's sleep 8 maximum. That plus a crew of 2 fills a boat that size. On the other hand, most 115's will sleep 10, although some only 8, and most will accommodate a crew of 4, perhaps 5, sometimes only 3.

    Are you prepared for a crew that size? Is that in your annual operating budget?

    You mention fishing trips. Do you plan on towing the Yellowfin?
  5. ky1e

    ky1e Guest

    The 85 should work as they have 4 state rooms (1 master, 1 vip, 2 triples= 10 people) plus a crews quarters of 2-3. When we have 10-12 people it is mainly kids that can sleep anywhere (my twin daughters sleep in the same bed half the time anyways). I'd expect to have a crew of 2 (and the 85 & 116 both had separate crews quarters in additional to the 4 staterooms). I could have more crew but I love being at the helm, driving the boat and being involved. I love captaining the boat and am very comfortable with my seamanship in terms of docking or handling any type of boat. I dont like the cleaning, prep, rigging, cooking, maintenance-- that's the main reason for getting the crew (plus to help with lines during docking). Lastly having a capt to be the project manager and look after all the maintenance and overall boat management. I see the capt as full time.

    I dont know if I can tow the Yellowfin it's a bit too big to tow I believe (2017 42 with full gap tower, seakeeper and quad 400 outboards). I'd either tow it at 10 mph or if cant be towed have a mate drive it separately. In terms of annual budget, I was planning on something like 10-20% of the purchase price ($200,000-$600,000/yr) and probably something around $300K.

    My biggest concern is not using it enough. Realistically I'd probably only use it 8 weeks a year for destinations. The rest of time it would be the occasional sunset cruise/day trip around the Tampa area where we live. It would need full time cleaning/attending to each week but not a full time crew 365 days a year.
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 26, 2016
  6. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    You're dreaming. On an 85' you might get away with 2 crew but really going to need a minimum of 3 with the Yellowfin involved (at least on trips) and just keeping up with the mechanical and rinsing/chamoising/cleaning even if you're not using it. 2 full time minimum on an 85'. Could tow the yellowfin at 12 knots or less no problem but is a little big to tow, but doable. If you go 100' or over you will NEED 4 crew between that and the yellowfin, 3 full time minimum. On an 80' Hatteras MY your budget may work.....but on a 100' or over you're looking at $600k a year minimum on up, usually around $1 million a year easily on 110' or over. You can sure rent hotel rooms cheap in comparison. Also anything over 80' REALLY limits your choices on the West Coast of FL and hard to get dockage in many places without reservations way ahead of time.
  7. olderboater

    olderboater Senior Member

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    I'd recommend some chartering to make the judgment on size. See if an 85' is big enough or if you need 100' or 115' to be comfortable.

    Crew will be a bit of a challenge. There are some who captain for various clients for a week at a time and for the 85 they might be a workable solution. On the 115, I'd be less convinced that would work and you might need a full time captain even for part time use. Having different crew members each trip is an assurance of getting some you just don't like along the way.

    After some chartering, then I would target the smallest that I feel comfortable meets my needs as your cruising grounds do not require larger. We own an 85' Pacific Mariner and it would fit your needs well. Looking at 85-95' below $4 million and no older than 2000, I see some nice boats. 85' Sunseeker, 85' Pacific Mariner, 86' Riva Opera, 88' Sunseeker, 88' Ferretti, 90' Moonen, 90' Hargrave, 91' Sunseeker, 92' Horizon, 94' Sunseeker, 94' Ferretti, 95' Johnson, 95' Hargrave, 95' Cheoy Lee. Now, I'd personally rate some of those higher than others.

    This isn't saying you might not get a great deal on an Azimut that surveys well and putting up with a few issues might not be worth it. A good survey answers a lot of questions. Most brands of boats I prefer buying new,, but there are a couple of brands that I'd never buy new but might not be as concerned buying used. Hopefully any major issues have been addressed.

    If y0u can stay in this range, you'll have fewer issues with draft, you'll be able to get by with a crew of 2 perhaps (which I'd never try on a 115). Again, chartering will show you what a crew on a boat this size does and you can judge what part of that you need and what you don't.

    As to you like taking the helm, well so do we. However, you doing so doesn't significantly reduce the work of a crew. The captain is still the Master and responsible and can't relax when you're at the helm. The way you and family can reduce the crew need is as deck hands and stews. Now, that's not the way most people who only get to cruise 8 weeks or so a year wants to spend that time. There's a lot of time spent maintaining a boat this size. When you arrive at a destination, there is washing down the boat. There is fueling it. Checking things out before leaving dock. Fixing issues along the way. Maintaining a clean boat is a lot more work than a home, as you don't have salt water in your home. You have a lot of equipment on an 85' boat. Typically 3 heads, 2 or 3 A/C's, 2 generators, a watermaker, all on top of 2 engines. Plus all the electronics.

    If you don't have a full time captain you'll need to use a yacht management company for a boat this size. Let them sit without care for a couple of months and they will not be ready to use.

    You can minimize crew need by eating on shore or by cooking and cleaning yourself but the crew will require food as well. Also, doing your own laundry including linens minimizes crew needs.

    For every foot above the 85 all these things increase. You think of 115 as being 35% bigger than 85. It's really more like 65-70% bigger in volume and in work. Expect costs of operating and maintaining to be 65-70% higher too.

    I'd also check out my probable cruising grounds. I don't know if you intend to anchor or use marinas. See what issues you face with draft, with bridges, and with space at marinas to accommodate various sizes. It's not as bad and limiting as some might lead you to believe but it's definitely a factor in some areas.

    When would I recommend a larger size? If I was cruising to waters that I felt required the larger boat. If I was anticipating more people regularly and needed the size. If I wanted a chef aboard and all work done by crew and needed more crew than I could accommodate with my guests on smaller. If I just couldn't get the comfort and feeling I wanted on the smaller boat. By chartering some before buying we were able to answer those questions better. We did charter a couple of sizes of the same builder and didn't like one nearly as well as the other. We chartered different type boats and a couple of great boats just weren't for us. I know chartering seems quite expensive but for your limited use not that much more than owning and, it's a great bargain if it helps you avoid a multi million dollar mistake.
  8. Pascal

    Pascal Senior Member

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    There is a lot more than the nr of beds when planning trips with large groups to the Bahamas It's also water tank/water maker capacity, holding tank capacity (very few pump outs) as well as storage including fridge/freezer but also dry goods. All this is absolutely critical unless you want to be tied to a dock at an island with supplies... Even laundry quickly becomes an issue, for 10 to 12 plus crew two sets of washer/dryer is a minimum (especially with kids who seem to go thru twice the number of towels as adults :) )

    Towing a heavy 42 CC is a lot of work and that alone will require a crew member dedicated to the CC. I know a 74 sportfish thst tows a 37 yellowfin (triples, no tower or gyro) and while they pull it a 25kts I think the 42 will be hull speed tow only.

    I recently handled the research/selection/purchase process for a repeat charter guests who had outgrown the 70' Johnson I was running and wanted his own boat. The criteria was not much different from what you re describing although a skylounge was a must which limited the options. They ended up with a 2009 84 Lazzara. It was at the top of the short list which included hatteras, Johnson, Hargrave, Cheoy Lee, etc... The 5 SR plus 2 crew SR layout of th Lazzara, the fast cruise, sub 5' draft, Cat power of th Lazzara was a perfect match. We also determined that going over 90 would not only increase the budget but also limit the cruising grounds and dockage

    We are just wrapping up a 5 week trip in the Exumas which included the owners and their large groups but also a charter. In 5 weeks we only tied up to a dock two nights, the rest was on the hook with re provisioning limited to what's available in Gtown and what owners would bring down on the plane. We had up to 12 guests (th Lazzara has a very nice pull out bed in the skylounge) and it worked out perfectly. The amount of storage available as critical to making it work.

    Size and draft is also critical. The Johnson 79 skylounge I ran for 8 years had 6 1/4 draft which was really a pain. Forget the keys with 6+ draft, except key west. In the Exumas there are many great anchorages (south of Staniel) where I d have to play the tides to get in and out. Those days are gone. I can run th bank all the way to great exuma when the sound is rough and get in to Barraterre, Lee stocking etc without having to wait for tide. For flexibility, a higher cruise speed is also very nice when needed (some boats in that size range will struggle to cruise at 19/20 fully loaded and will do so at high load reducing engine lifespan. At 21kts our C32s are only running 50% load...

    On the west coast, anything over 80/90 also drastically limit your option.s. Shore power also becomes a problem as at many marinas, you will be popping breakers on a daily basis.

    I agree with olderboater, try chartering before you take the plunge. It's actually not as expensive as it seems... A 400k annual crew and maintenance/dockage budget plus depreciation will cover your 8 to 10 weeks of annual cruising with zero hassle whatsoever. And you get to experience many destinations .

    The only reason the owners of the 84 we run now bought their own boat is because they outgrew the 70 they were chartering from us (up to 8 to 9 weeks a year)
  9. ky1e

    ky1e New Member

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    Great advice here, thank you Capt J, Olderboater and Pascal. I am listening and will follow your combined advice. First step is I will charter an 85' and see how we like the whole experience.
  10. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    I would also add Lazzara to your list. The styling is similar to Azimut etc. They are not the best built boat, but less problematic than Azimut. They are not the best sea boat. BUT, they really do a fantastic job at layout and cabins and shallow draft, which is what you're going to need for the West coast of FL, keys and Bahamas. Also getting over 85' is going to REALLY shorten your dockage options on the West coast and Keys.
  11. ky1e

    ky1e New Member

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    Good points on the draft and dockage for Tampa, West Coast FL, Keys and Bahamas. Those are other good reasons to stay shallow draft and less than 85'.

    I looked up Chartering for Azimuts. The 166' footers were $40-50K/week. The 2008 95' Azimut I was looking at was only $28,000/week. It was half the price of the 116' footers. I'll be honest at $28K/week (even if I spent $40K/week) it would be hard to justify owning with my limited use. I'll look into chartering one first. I have a feeling after chartering I probably wouldnt buy until I had more time to enjoy it as part of my regular daily lifestyle.
  12. olderboater

    olderboater Senior Member

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    Yes, $28k a week sounds horrible until one calculates the cost of ownership. One other thing charter prices tell you is the cost of ownership relative to boat size. Compare 116' ft to 95' to 85'. More than double and they reflect the cost of ownership.

    Another advantage of chartering when you only have a week at a time is you can do it at different locations. Charter one week in Fort Lauderdale, then a week in Rhode Island, then one in the Virgin Islands. We learned a lot while chartering in 2013. The boat we built, we'd been on several of and knew the subtle differences. Amortizing the purchase price of the boat and amortizing future rebuilds and painting and major maintenance, chartering really cost us no more than owning.
  13. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    I agree. Contact Pascal on chartering that 84' Lazzara, I have a customer who started out as Pascals charter customer and chartered several trips on Pascals previous boat in the Exumas (before buying his own 50' MY) and he had nothing but excellent things to say about his experience with Pascal.