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Another plumbing challenge on my 43'

Discussion in 'Ocean Yacht' started by Prospective, May 29, 2018.

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  1. Prospective

    Prospective Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2016
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    232
    Location:
    New England
    Well... just wanted to share. When I bought my '43 4 years ago I asked the service folks at the yard it was at to swap out all of my head hoses. It's a gross job and I could tell they were permiated. Well, they did what the could but several were inaccessable including the one from the vip head to the holding tank.

    Shortly after I got the boat home I also discovered I had a leak in my holding tank. It turned out to be an inaccessable "clean-out" cover that had blown off the top of the tank. You could just barely spy it by opening the forward inspection hatch in the master stateroom, and looking toward the stern just below the cabin sole. But there was no way to access it. The only way to fix it was to take a sabre saw, circular saw, and recip saw to my stateroom, totally rip out the berth and carpet, then cut an access hole in the floor. All of this to replace a $ dollar inspection port that shouldn't be there in the first place. At least this project netted me a teak and holly sole which I love.

    Now flash forward to this weekend. I still have the original jabsco electric saltwater heads. But the vip head one refuses to flush. It works fine but the head hose to the holding tank is just completely calcified. I am now haunted by the words of the service guys 4 years ago that the head hose was totally inaccessable. So out came the saws again. I took out the head, ripped up the laminate floor and cut a 8x16 hole in the floor to "see". Well the hose is wire tied along it's lenght all the way forward under my master stateroom floor with it's new teak and holly sole. I managed to get the wire ties cut using a utility knife duck taped to a pole. Now I've got to pull the new hose thru with the old hose. The old hose is adhesived into place where it passes through a couple of bulkheads that can't be reach. No idea how I'm going to bust it out. But it will happen. And when done I am converting it to a freshwater head. Hopefully I survive.

    I just can't believe Ocean built this boat with no expectation that the head hoses would ever have to be replaced.
  2. praetorian47

    praetorian47 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2011
    Messages:
    258
    Location:
    Bayport, Midland, Ontario
    Raritan makes a product call CH (Cleans Hoses). It's not really cheap, but it's designed to help your issue. I used it on my Ocean when I bought it. i can't tell you if it worked but my hoses have no build up (don't ask how I know this, but I also now know that a Galley Maid head will flush a toothbrush - and macerate it, but it can get stuck in the holding tank line!)
  3. Prospective

    Prospective Senior Member

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    Location:
    New England
    I'm committed at this point. I thought about using something to "unclog" them but these hoses were just so gross with premated smelly goo crap that I couldn't bare to cover them back up.
  4. praetorian47

    praetorian47 Senior Member

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    Location:
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    Probably the best plan in the long run.
    For future, Raritan does make a device that uses a venturi to inject cleaning/holding tank fluid into every flush and I found in my last boat that it kept hoses clean and smelling fine. They won't support it on the galley maid since the flush volume is too high.
  5. ranger58sb

    ranger58sb Senior member

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2013
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    818
    Location:
    Chesapeake Bay, USA
    Private-branded CH is the same product as Trac's Sew Clean, and I can tell you it works.

    I had our toilet discharge hose disconnected for a while as were were replacing the joker valve and needed some replacement screws that we had to order... and as time passed while we waited, the uric acid scale build-up in that line solidified, like a rock. Even got my plumber's snake stuck in it... and when I sent the little camera down there, I could tell there was an almost complete blockage, no liquid flow at all.

    Anyway, the Sew Clean worked, almost immediately. Actually, I was really using Trac's Barnacle Buster (undiluted version), which I happened to have on hand. I talked with them and they said 1) BB and SC are pretty much the same except BB has some additional anti-marine-growth ingredient, and 2) to dilute the BB using SC instructions (SC is slightly more diluted). Four hours later I had a functioning system again, although we treated that hose -- off-and-on -- for the next 24 hours to be sure.

    -Chris
  6. Prospective

    Prospective Senior Member

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    Location:
    New England
    UhOh... Major project anxiety. I have attached my new head hose to the old and attempted to pull it through. There's about 8 feet I don't have any access to including where it passes through a stringer. I have wiggled and jiggled for hours along with pulling on the old hose with a ratchet strap and I can barely budge it. Will get back at it today but it I can't get it to go it could mean tearing up a portion of the teak floor I put down a few years ago.

    On a side note, the hose that I have been able to remove was absolutely clogged with the the most foul course mud you can imagine. With zero flow I find it hard to believe any cleaner would have worked. And worse, the rubber lining of the hose was decayed and flaking off of the pvc exterior. This hose has to go, I just hope I don't have to cut the boat in half to do it.
  7. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    Sometimes you have to leave the old hose in place and hole saw a new hole and then use a plumbers fish tape to get up to where the new hose is, attach, and pull it through. I changed all of the toilet hoses on a hatteras once and they were all 5200 where they went through the bulkheads.
  8. Prospective

    Prospective Senior Member

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    Thanks, actually good to hear in a way. I may be moving in that direction although I would be drilling through a stringer in this case which makes me nervous. Will have to see how thick the thing actually is.
  9. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    If you can access where the original hose goes through the stringer, maybe you can cut it off there, and ream the old hose out and pull the new one through the same hole.
  10. ranger58sb

    ranger58sb Senior member

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    Location:
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    I expect Sew Clean would have cleared the blockage, but it sounds like the hose is toast anyway...

    The original hose may well be fastened to various supporting structure with zip ties or similar every 12-18" for strain relief, and that may be part of what you're fighting against. In addition to getting the old hose out, you'll probably also want access to attach strain relief supports to the new hose when you install it... 'cause you won't want any sags in that run...

    Back to the Sew Clean... if that will clear the blockage, you could maybe run a smaller new hose through the older hose, i.e., without removing the old. I dunno whether that'd be useful or not, given resulting constriction...

    Another thought: if you have to tear up floor to get there, you might want to consider replacing that one segment with PVC... if that'd be useful.

    -Chris
  11. Prospective

    Prospective Senior Member

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    Location:
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    VICTORY... at least I think so. It's taken me days and I'm covered in bruises and cuts but the hard part is over. I had attached the new hose to the old with a 1.5" union. But after many hours of trying to chase the new hose with the old, I could not get it to go through the stringer hole no matter how much leverage I applied with ratchet straps and wiggle jiggling. I was seriosly considering cutting up my salon floor but not even sure access on both sides would get the job done. And I looked in vain for another way to run the hose to the existing tank connection. And then I had what I think was an epihpany...

    The tank runs fore and aft. The VIP head (which needs the hose replaced) is aft of the head. The master head is forward. And yet, all of the tank connections are made on the forward section of the tank. So the VIP head hose has to make a 10ft run forward with not nearly enough "drop" to get it to drain into the holding tank. From there it attaches to a Y-valve that diverts the waste to the holding tank or BACK AFT 10ft to a thru-hull for overboard discharge near the after end of the holding tank. I couldn't think for the life of me why Ocean would insist on running the hose all the way forward and then back when they could have just run it to the AFT end of the holding tank. It shortens the run by probably 8ft one way, preserves a reasonable drop for it to drain and allows the Y-valve to be within a foot of the thru hull. The only catches were I need a hole in my stringer to get the hose from the starboard side to the center line and I needed a connection to the aft end of the holding tank. I was able to drill the hole high in the stringer next to some other drain lines and get the hose to run into the center bilge. Then I had to cut a couple of holes in my holding tank. That's a bit sketchy. One was for the 1.5" mushroom head thru-hull that I used for the hose connection. The other was in the top of the tank for a 4" inspection plate so I could reach the mushroom end of the thru-hull into it's spot from the inside and attach the nut from the outside. Thank god I had created a hatch when I replaced the master SR floor to get to the top of the tank. I was also able to remove the stateroom bed relatively easy because I have already torn it out once and reinstalled with screws rather than 5200 as Ocean had done. Without doing that there is no access to the top of the tank and this technique won't work. I know that ideally these tank connections would be spin welded in place but after some research this appears to be an acceptable option. Everything 4200'd into place neatly and I'm cautiously optimistic that I've not only solved the problem but actually improved the design.

    I was also able to remove the old head hose that was completely clogged over about 10ft with a hard concrete. Next step will be to replace the VIP head floor with teak and holly to match my stateroom (with an inspection hatch in case anyone needs to replace the hose I installed. Then install my new fresh water head and I'm done. This one almost had me beat but I wanted to write this follow up for any of our other 43' owners in case they face this problem.
  12. chesapeake46

    chesapeake46 Senior Member

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    Congratulations. Thanks for the detailed follow up. I love it when we have a victory !
  13. Boomer

    Boomer Senior Member

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    Awesome job!
  14. Stir it up

    Stir it up New Member

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    Jul 5, 2017
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    Location:
    Plymouth MA
    I am getting a black water odor smell in my 2004 43 ocean. I have the fresh water vacuflush toilets. When I flush the vip toilet, I can hear a little hiss noise, so I assume it’s a loose or bad connection. Possibly the Y valve? Could the hose be permeating the smell? Anyone have a suggestion on how to find were the hiss or gas is coming from? I replaced the 6 inch access hatch a few years ago, so I don’t think it’s the cap.