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68' Burger Motoryacht

Discussion in 'Burger Yacht' started by PPD, Apr 2, 2023.

  1. PPD

    PPD Member

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    I'm looking at a 68' Burger MY and I'm a little concerned that it is not stabilized. It doesn't have a bow thruster either, but I think I can manage without that. Can any of you seasoned pros advise on whether or not the boat should have stabilizers, or am I over thinking this on a 68?
  2. Pascal

    Pascal Senior Member

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    Not familiar with this specific model but it depends on where you re going to be using it. If almost always inland or protected waters, you probably don’t need stabs. If you re going to be operating in open waters, like going from the Bahamas, having stabs is going to make the experience a lot more enjoyable :)

    adding stabs whether fins or gyro isn’t cheap…

    As to BT, again it depends. 65/70 is pretty much a size where using spring lines is starting to put quite a bit of stress on dock cleats so a thruster is nice to have. Also depends on captain and crew level of experience.
  3. rtrafford

    rtrafford Senior Member

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    What's the year or alloy, general configuration? Mine is a 68 aluminum Hargrave. It's stabilized. Adding to mine would be somewhat simple if it didn't have them. It didn't have a thruster, but I added it.

    Ride without stabilization, as Pascal stated, would be somewhat less enjoyable than with the fins, but with its relatively low center of gravity and low profile, it doesn't have the snap of others. I've been in sizable seas without them functioning, and I never feared the outcome, but missed the comfort. IF sticking primarily to coastal cruising, it's not a deal breaker at all.

    Handling, the thruster just provides another level of help, and with that help is added confidence in tight situations. It's a heavy boat at 65 ton. Go slow, but maneuver with the engines at 750-780 RPM and you introduce some torque to your commands, and she behaves very well. Get used to her, and you can walk her sideways, but given the size, wind is rarely cooperating with your plans...so the thruster helps quite a bit. Again, not a deal killer.

    Much really depends on your designed use. I think my use is rare in comparison to most in the class, so these assets bring quite a bit of appreciation to me. Often I am well offshore.
  4. rtrafford

    rtrafford Senior Member

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    We also had experience with ownership of an older vintage steel Sparkman design. She had neither stabilizers nor thruster. We had no issues and went quite a distance aboard over many years with comfort. She had an obviously lower profile and less windage than my current Hargrave, but in trade the Hargrave is easier to pilot with better vantages.
  5. rtrafford

    rtrafford Senior Member

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    If you want her stabilized, if this is the boat you want, don't be afraid of adding should you choose that you desire now or later. In many ways modifying an alloy hull is easier than fiberglass version.
  6. Capt Ralph

    Capt Ralph Senior Member

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    For 18 years now we have been wanting stabilizers and maybe a BT.
    We have traveled the coast, northern Bahamas, Tortuga and more while living aboard.
    Been chased out of the ocean and some times should of been but no exits close by.
    We learned to keep things secure, before the boat starts rolling.
    Even the kats learned to get low and honker down.

    I still think about stabilizers, reality is; I rather pick my weather days better and save the money for fuel and hooch.

    If there is a web lead on what your looking at, please post it, Somebody here may know her.

    Your just over and into the 20 meter class of boat. Lots of newer rules and silly things to keep in mind.
    Something to consider first; insurance.
    Please talk to your insurance agent about >20M boats.
    Something happening with our friends and past customers, 2 live , awake and able people must be available while operating.
  7. PPD

    PPD Member

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    This is the boat - Mason's Candy. 1975 Burger 67 Motor Yacht Motor Yacht for sale - YachtWorld
    She seems to be well maintained based on the info received so far. Going to go look at it down at Rolly Marine in the next couple weeks.

    I've looked at a few Hatts in the 70-80' range, and a couple browards. Of course, I can't find everything I want in any one boat. Our plan is to run her along the East Coast and over to the Bahamas, maybe further into the Caribbean as well. We like the full side decks, pilothouse on the main level, full beam engine room with gennies in there (as opposed to some of the Hatt MYs with the gennies under the floor in the bow). Stairs to the flybridge is a must, or at least the room for me to modify the boat to install them.
  8. rtrafford

    rtrafford Senior Member

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    She's the similar Hargrave design that I have, just a few years older. Quality boat. Survey well for electrical condition and current plating status. Otherwise, solid and will likely serve you well. I see some details that would have me wrestling for a purchase price below the ask, better preparing you for the adds you'll need or want.

    Mine is essentially the same length, but a bit wider, and I seem to have much more tank capacity than is being listed here.

    She'll run just fine without stabilizers, but add them if that is in your wheelhouse of budget. Keep things simple with Naiad 254 hydraulics, and they will slide in just outboard of the rear of your main engines. Drive them from the Detroits with PTO pumps...all in all pretty simple. But really not needed if you're adhering to the coast and can plan around weather.

    You've got a little less iron than my engine room, and you're lighter on tanks and thinner on beam...so likely a bit more nimble. She should respond a bit better than mine does for dockage. I'd invest in stabilizers before I went to the thruster.

    Overall a very good design, quality livability, and should deliver a lot of satisfaction with her use. I have a world of knowledge on this design/build. Let me know if I can help.
  9. rtrafford

    rtrafford Senior Member

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    Every time I get to thinking that I'd like to have something in the 85-100 class, my surfing efforts remind me of how much I have in these 68 feet. I go bigger, rooms add perhaps 10%, but livability really doesn't change much. This layout brings a lot of boat into a smaller footprint.
  10. PPD

    PPD Member

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    The relatively small tankage is one of the weak points of the boat. The owner says there is a fwd fuel tank, 400 gallons, but it is disconnected. I need to find out why. There has to be some issue there, otherwise why would you disconnect it.

    I like that the boat has the 8v71s. Owner reports 12 kts at 1600 rpms - 18 gal/hr with one generator running. Not bad for 12 kts.
    LM Viking likes this.
  11. Pascal

    Pascal Senior Member

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    Slow down to 10.5 to 11 kts and fuel burn will drop to 10/12 GPH. Plus 1 1/2 for the gen
  12. rtrafford

    rtrafford Senior Member

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    Yes, the fuel sweet spot is right around 10.2-10.5 knots, depending on bottom growth.
  13. rtrafford

    rtrafford Senior Member

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    What do you know of the tank configuration?

    The front tank was likely born water, and is a regular spot for metal deterioration. If that was indeed water, and water is in the 7-900 range as listed, then they seem to be using "my" reserve fuel tank for water. Water could be returned to the forward tank, and reliance with dockside water or the water maker can allow you to be comfortable with 500-ish gallons. That's what I do although my forward water is closer to 700.

    Converting water to fuel is a relatively easy swap. I did it with an aft lazz tank that was born as 450 water. I dried and cleaned it and converted it to reserve fuel to add to my existing 2100 gallons. My reserve fuel is beneath the master, and the main fuel is under the rear guests up to the aft engine room bulkhead. You might find black and gray between the engines. Beware of them with regards to metal deterioration as well. Even if present, that's not a difficult repair.
  14. rtrafford

    rtrafford Senior Member

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    But at 10.5 and 1375-1425 RPM, my 12-71's burn 12.5 each. I'm pretty much 25 gallons per hour, 600 gallons per 24 hour cycle when I run offshore at distance.
  15. Pascal

    Pascal Senior Member

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    What size boat? The key number is hull speed which is the square root of the waterline in feet x 1.3. Exceed that by 1 knot and your fuel burn will double

    heck, 25 GPH is what we burn with the 110 at 11 kts with a pair of 16V2000
  16. Capt Ralph

    Capt Ralph Senior Member

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    Pictures show low profile 8v TIs.
    I'll take your word their 71s as that was the norm.
    Try to get the engine serial numbers and service history. No logs, no receipts; it didn't happen.

    With the serial numbers , we can determine the original injector size.
    Then I can upload the fuel/HP curves for the correct engine instead of just guessing.
    Or, I can assume N90s and upload that.

    We can see what the engines, properly loaded, burn at a given RPM with out the ex-used car sales pitch.
    Last edited: Apr 2, 2023
    Ward likes this.
  17. maldwin

    maldwin Senior Member

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    She is a nice boat, I remember being impressed when I walked through her at the Ocean Reef Vintage Weekend just after her refit. The owner is very nice, and very knowledgeable, although it sounds as though she may have been donated.
  18. PPD

    PPD Member

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    The tag on the boat shows the Fwd tank as being born a fuel tank.
    She is currently owned by the Save the Sea Turtles Foundation. It sounds like she was just donated to the charity very recently.

    Attached Files:

    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 3, 2023
  19. rtrafford

    rtrafford Senior Member

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    Tag shows a water tank forward as well, and I'd guess that's the forward-most tank under the floor at the bottom of the forward stairs. Perhaps there is another tank in the ER as they aren't listing a black tank, expected to be found between the engines. Most likely the fuel is all found beneath the aft staterooms, and they've simply bulkheaded them for added strength resulting in three tanks where I have two.

    I suppose there is enough room for both a fuel and water tank forward of the ER as the sum of those two "fwd tanks" is slightly more than my water that has room to spare...

    In any event, locate the water tanks for survey, and be sure to open inspection plates there to inspect the inner skin. When she's hauled look at these same locations for weld seams indicative of previous repairs, but the view from inside is going to tell you more than the view from beneath. A water tank will build sediment, and often that contains heavy metals from the water sources. That paste in a dry tank becomes a battery causing pitting that should be visible.

    As she has been donated, likely not getting much useful data from the seller. Burger may be able to send you plans or additional background as a resource, too.

    She was delivered in 1974 as Delicito, later Katerina.
  20. rtrafford

    rtrafford Senior Member

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    If the battery banks are still located in the lazaret you'll want to relocate them to the ER for shorter runs with fresh cables. Those original cables don't age well and likely should not be trusted at this age.