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100-115' Used Yacht Segment

Discussion in 'General Yachting Discussion' started by German Yachting, Feb 26, 2017.

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  1. German Yachting, Feb 26, 2017
    #1
    German Yachting

    German Yachting Senior Member

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    Some threads over the years, along with the show Selling Yachts, has me thinking about the market of those buying 2003-2008 100-115' yachts in the $3-6M range. Skimming through the listings, you see 116' and 105' Azimuts, 115' Benetti Classics, some Browards, 112' Westports, 111' Sunseeker, etc. My question is, are any of these worth buying? The Westports probably fair the best (by a good margin) but what I am trying to get at is that there have been a couple of threads here and that show where the buyers can comfortably spend $3-6M on a yacht but not the $12-15M that they would sell for new. Would that ever be a sound decision to get an older bigger boat for which that $3-6M is say 15% or so of your net worth but considerably more maintenance and crew cost than a 60-80' boat which would have the same $3-6M price tag as a new vessel?

    On the one hand, you do save a good amount on the upfront depreciation but the annual operating costs are probably in the $800-1.2M range (please correct this with a more accurate figure) and there is probably an expensive refit that needs to be done on the engines, new electronics, and paint. Sure there are some offsetting charter costs but I'm just curious as to those who choose to buy in this segment given the disproportional operating costs. It may be just that the buyer could afford it comfortably new and rather save $8M in depreciation but I'd assume there are buyers that come from both segments. Does anyone have some first hand knowledge that they could share?
  2. Danvilletim, Feb 26, 2017
    #2
    Danvilletim

    Danvilletim Senior Member

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    I flew to Italy and France this weekend to look at 30-35m boats. There are loads of quality boats in the $2-$2.5m range. Codecasa, Sunseeker, Notika. All w zero speed stabilizers. And there are many 100' boats at $1m that were pretty rough. Seriously the value here compared to FLIBS is unreal and going to get better as the economy is not getting better here. For $3-4m we looked at a couple 40m just for fun.

    Operating costs seem a little cheaper here. Crew salaries are much less w a huge supply of experienced U.K., Europe, and Eastern Europe talent.

    And oddly enough the charter market seems much healthier and predictable here.

    Pm is you want to know more. I've pulled together a bunch of spreadsheets to help me figure this out. Definitely difference in operating cost if these boats are commercially registered vs private non charter
  3. olderboater, Feb 27, 2017
    #3
    olderboater

    olderboater Senior Member

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    Some boats seem to endure that length of time better than others. Two boats that I've seen in the range you speak of that generally have been in good condition and a good deal have been Hatteras and Westport. Most of the Hatteras 100' are either newer or older though than the period you mention. There are always Westport 112's available, many being used on charter and for sale.

    Owning a Westport 112 vs. a 60-80' boat would cost you double. You're typically talking not only the added length for dockage, pushing to a higher rate per foot. You're talking a crew of 4 or so vs. 1 or 2. You're talking more in fuel. Also, you're closer to major maintenance or rehab being required whether engines or painting or interior.

    I'd look carefully at my intended use and my budget. Getting a larger boat just to be doing it isn't logical if you don't have a use for one either carrying more people or cruising in different waters.
  4. olderboater, Feb 27, 2017
    #4
    olderboater

    olderboater Senior Member

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    Very interesting. Do keep one thing in mind and that is not to compare to FLIBS pricing. FLIBS is a show, not a venue for good deals on purchases. They are hoping to get top dollar at FLIBS.

    Your pricing comments don't surprise me. There are also a lot of boats that are plentiful in Europe and just not widely available here. Certain periods of Sunseeker and Riva. Definitely the other brands you mention. There were periods in which the number of boats imported into the US was way down. You look at boats like Moonen or Heesen and you'll see none here either. Now if you want a SF, you'll find a much larger availability in the US.