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Building a new yacht; seeking suggestions

Discussion in 'General Yachting Discussion' started by nilo, Jul 19, 2009.

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  1. Mov-it!

    Mov-it! New Member

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    Hi Nilo,

    It sure is a challenging project, but I still have my doubts about marketing the yacht as a semi. It is a niche concept like the 114 even if it doesn't have the Explorer emphasis.

    I've briefly played around with the drawing and there were a few changes that did have some softening effects. I stretched the curve from the center section towards the aft. This didn't interfere with the views from the salon.
    I also tried to put 3 portholes in the center section which also broke the surface. The single porthole is the center of attention in that section. It emphases the size of the surface. Last thing I tried was a little against Moonen tradition. I darkened the roof and mast to a medium/dark grey. This also flattened out the height of the yacht. Dark colors do have obvious disadvantages on the higher surfaces.
  2. nilo

    nilo Senior Member

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    I had the chance to enquire on his more during the Monaco boat show from Northern Lights. As I understand there are already a few installations, but becasue the system is based on filters the cost for changing filters may vary greatly due to the condition of the engines of the gensets. They indicated that it can be anything from 20 to 200 hours. For the time being the cost of filters seems quite hefty, but I alsso understand that they are testing new filters, which may bring this cost to a more afforable level.

    I will share the information I would have once more info is available.
  3. nilo

    nilo Senior Member

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    I also had the chance to discuss this with MTU in Cannes and the outcome is that they have not yet installed this new system and it is under development stage. They will share more info with me in due course.
  4. Innomare

    Innomare Senior Member

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    Congratulations with your new endeavour, Nilo! It will be interesting to follow this new project from the start.
    I already like the design, and with Rene, you can't go wrong really. But as the whole point in posting is to receive feedback, here's some initial thoughts...

    Judging from the shadows, I assume the master cabin is full beam?
    I am not so fond on big forward-facing windows on the main deck. Not only for the safety aspect when taking green water onboard, but also for the privacy aspect. The foredeck is usually a working and/or relaxing area for the crew. Will guests in the owners cabin be comfortable with that, or will they keep the blinds shut all the time anyway?
    Also because of the windows, the stairs from the bridge to the foredeck will look more like an afterthought.

    Good luck and keep posting,

    Bruno
  5. nilo

    nilo Senior Member

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    Thanks for your positive input. I started this thread to receive feed back and any contribution is welcome. Indeed, we are still looking for ways of improving the profile since I posted it on the forum, especially taking into consideration the responses we have been receiving.

    In reply to your points, I do agree that they have substance; but on the other hand, although I would like to achieve the excellence, I am still aware that building a yacht is full of compromises. If you have the forward part of the main deck covered, the feeling in this area is not much different than having a full beam cabin on the lower deck, especially since the designers started to have very large port holes at this low level as well. So, I still think that having a forward view is going to contribute the total attractiveness of this area positively.

    We are planning a layout that is going to be flexible and which will serve to different tastes. This full beam area can either be a master cabin, or a dinning area; even a forward launching area. Your concern of privacy in case of master is correct, but then there will be privacy offence only when the crew will be working in the fore deck for anchors. Otherwise, they will have limitations to spend time here. They will most probably have a crew launch with lots of daylight, so somewhat less compromise.

    In respect to the green water dangers; as you are well aware the glass technology has improved drastically and this is no different than having the pilot house of present "Nilo" on the main deck. Furthermore for long passages there could always be storm shutters.
  6. Innomare

    Innomare Senior Member

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    It seems a lot of thought has already gone into this! And indeed, a good yacht is always the best compromise between a long list of wishes. Some more thoughts that crossed my mind:

    Would it be an idea to shift the second tier of the superstructure (wheelhouse and skylounge) one or two meters towards the aft? I think it would do good to the profile (more robust look), but at the cost of some aft deck space on the upper deck. On the other hand, you can create a more secluded seating/sunbathing area in front of the wheelhouse, which can be nice in mediterranean ports where everyone is moored stern-to and the quays are full of tourists.

    The porthole in the "big white surface" seems to be too low to look through (form the inside) . It may well be intended that way (e.g. near a staircase or under upper galley cupboards) but it looks like "form preceded over function". Also, you may want portholes in the side doors on the main deck, which will then not be in line with this "cosmetic" porthole. In a rough sea, it's best to check outside for rollers before opening a side door, so I would definitely want portholes in those doors.

    Points I really like are the knuckle line in the aft of the topsides (would the boat become too modern if this was repeated in the deck overhangs?), and the windows of the skylounge which are set further outboard, increasing the space and light inside and giving a forward view from the skylounge.

    Bruno
  7. nilo

    nilo Senior Member

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    Dear Bruno,

    Thanks for coming back with more to the point comments. Initially I also wanted to have a robust impression, but after having checked with several people who are quite involved with yachting, as well as some of the comments on this site; we realized that she is indeed more robust than we wanted her to be. There are comments like “one off explorer yacht”, which in fact is not the ultimate goal. We want this boat to be perceived as a nice yacht even in the Med, but she should also give the impression that she can go to any sea and the intention is to have even a Pacific range. Hence, we are in the process of getting rid of this too strong appearance. As to the area in front of the pilot house, this is indeed quite usable. There is a U shape settee at the length of 3 meters and in front of it 2 low seating areas (like in the Turkish tradition – divans) each by 2.5 X 1.5 meters on each side, which can also serve as sun beds. The brief for this area was indeed to create a private area while you are in a marina or an area which you can enjoy a sun downer or moon rise while you are at anchor and tied to shore from the aft.

    The “big white surface” will be gone, along with the porthole, so form will not precede function. There will also be more window space for the salon’s forward area and on the door.

    As I said, we are still working on the profile, so there will be some more changes in this respect. I believe the sky launch will be a positive for the boat, because it will offer best of both worlds as a completely enclosed area, as well as an area that can be an integral part of the open space on the aft deck.
  8. nilo

    nilo Senior Member

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    new design

    After having checked various other options, we have now more or less finalized the profile. I will share the 2 options; one with a raked windows at both the pilot house and maindeck levels; the other one with straight windows at the main deck level, but still raked windows at the pilot house level.

    Will be pleased to hear your comments; which looks better for you? I know individual tastes differ, but i am just gauging the general opinions..

    Attached Files:

  9. dockboy93

    dockboy93 New Member

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    I like the straight windows better. I think it fits in better with the main deck lines. The boat looks GREAT!

    Dockboy93
  10. elsupremo

    elsupremo Senior Member

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    I think the option with raked windows looks better, consistent with the raked windows of pilothouse. I really like the design, excited to see how it turns out either way. :)
  11. YES!

    YES! Senior Member

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    Have you considered reverse raked windows for the pilot house providing for less heat load, better visibility and no interior light reflections at night?

    I believe it would provide a powerful appearance, leaving the main deck windows vertical.

    Just my opinion....I could be wrong.
  12. nilo

    nilo Senior Member

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    Yes ofcourse, we have tried all three options, as well as combinations. The good thing is each gives the boat a different apperance and makes her a different boat. The reason why at the moment we are not considering the revese raked windows is that we do not want to end up with a expedition yacht image, however if at a certain stage somebody wants to build her with such a flavor it will be just as good. These option are more yachty styles.

    I agree with the practical aspects of reverse raked windows for the flybridge.
  13. 'RoundTheHorn

    'RoundTheHorn Senior Member

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    I have to second Stan's opinion. Reverse raked pilothouse windows would look better and be more functional. If not the reverse rake, then I think having BOTH decks' windows designed vertically would be more visually appealing. Many of Trinity's boats have vertical windows for both the wheelhouse and owner's suite. I like that look as well.
  14. nilo

    nilo Senior Member

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    here are the other two attempts with straight and reverse raked windows in a slightly different profile, which we decided to alter at a later stage. but the idea of building the boat with such windows could still be possible if someone wants to end up with an expedition style yacht.

    Attached Files:

  15. Innomare

    Innomare Senior Member

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    Hi Nilo,

    it was nice to finally meet you in person at the METS. I hope you had a good time in Holland. Do drop by in The Hague for lunch if you have time next time around.

    I personally prefer profile 5-C, with both windows raked. I think it looks more seaworthy (I don't like the idea of green water smashing straight into vertical windows). I also think that it will be nicer to incorporate "floating" teak steps from the bridge deck to the foredeck when the windows are raked.

    A few considerations:
    - If the window mullions are quite big, the visibility through the raked windows will be worse than through vertical windows. You can opt to finish the mullions with just insulating paint and a leather or veneer finish instead of the bulky rockwool and plywood structure around them (which would be better from a noise perspective though)
    - I doubt the window in the wheelhouse side doors can be made that big (a.o. because of storm locks in the door). Or is it a smaller window with a paint effect? It may be better to draw an existing door type to avoid disappointment at a later stage.

    My 2 cts.

    Bruno
  16. nilo

    nilo Senior Member

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    Bruno thank you very much, will definitely take the chance to visit Den Hauge. As to the windows for wheelhouse doors, these will not be much different than present "Nilo". There is no paint effect.


    http://www.yachtforums.com/forums/moonen-yacht/7421-review-moonen-94-nilo.html
  17. outfitting

    outfitting New Member

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    window wheelhouse

    Dear Nilo,

    I have read this thread and for most of us it is nice to be involved in the process of yacht building this close. For most of us this is the closest we get.

    I know Moonen well as we supplied a lot of stainless steel railings and outfitting items to them in the past. They have their own stainless workshop now and the people from this workshop are doing their work very well.

    The issue "wheel house door" has already been resolved, but I like to add some to it for the rest of the people reading this topic. It is possible to make a full perimeter glass and have the dogs in the structure behind the glass.
    One advice to you, to make sure that the doors close well, try to keep the profile on the inside flat, while you can keep the profile on the outside according the profile of the boat.

    Another thing. Maybe, I missed it in the conversation, but you changed the sundeck. It looks like it is not very accessible with all the navigation on top. Beside that you have skipped the windscreen. Is there a reason for that?

    As for the railing, did you consider oval tube railing instead of teak. Less work and it is not something you will overlook when you look at the railing.

    Kind regards,

    Mike Gilsing
  18. nilo

    nilo Senior Member

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    Dear Mike,

    Thanks for your interest. You advice in terms of the pilot house doors well noted; I am aware of the difficulties that has surfaced in the 99 alu.

    In terms of sundeck issues, I presume you are referring to a fly bridge deck. In fact there is no fly bridge deck as such, because we wanted to keep the profile low.

    As it has been discussed already, I also think there should not be any teak on the railing, because the teak insert makes the railing prominent. So, there will not be any teak. This is of course more practical in the daily use. I have the teak on the railing with the present boat; it looks great and adds class, but needs a lot of care.