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The Next America's Cup in Multihulls

Discussion in 'General Sailing Discussion' started by brian eiland, Jun 19, 2009.

  1. brian eiland

    brian eiland Senior Member

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    First Day Sailing

    America's Cup: Alinghi 5 sails for the first time on Lake Geneva
    Monday, 20 July 2009
    (courtesy BYM news)

    The Swiss America’s Cup Defender, Alinghi, hoisted the sails on its giant new catamaran Alinghi 5 for the first time today on Lake Geneva, Switzerland. The 90ft multihull was cheered off the dock at midday by hundreds of spectators watching the maiden sail out of Le Bouveret.

    Murray Jones, who is running the initial trials of the giant multihull that represents a first step in the development process towards the 33rd America’s Cup, gave his comments on a good first day on the water: “We went out this morning with a list of objectives to work through: testing the boat, checking the structure, doing some manoeuvres and seeing if the sails would all sheet and it went pretty well; we ticked off just about everything. There are a lot of systems on the boat that are complicated and new, but it was fantastic. To fly the boat upwind and downwind with gennaker was awesome for the first day of sailing. The boat is a tribute to the designers and the boat builders. To deliver a boat of this complexity that works straight out of the box on the first day is impressive; really impressive.”

    Flying a hull on a vessel this big, and on first day outing....that is impressive :cool:

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  2. brian eiland

    brian eiland Senior Member

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  3. Pascal

    Pascal Senior Member

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    Today could also be judgment day in NY with the contempt motion set for hearing....

    fantastic pictures and video though.
  4. brian eiland

    brian eiland Senior Member

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  5. Kevin

    Kevin YF Moderator

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    One can't help but admire the spin each camp has put on today's judgment.

    If you read only the statement from Brad Butterworth, Alinghi's team skipper, you'd think they won in court today:

    On the other hand, if you read the statement from Tom Ehmen (BMW Oracle Racing) you would think they won, despite Alinghi not being found in contempt:

    I especially liked the part where Brad talks about "the mediation that the GGYC halted with this new litigation attempt" while Tom mentions that "Société Nautique de Genève (SNG) agreed to return to mediation, a process we have supported throughout our challenge".

    :rolleyes:
  6. brian eiland

    brian eiland Senior Member

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    Should Stored Power Be Allowed?

    AMERICA’S CUP SURVEY - SHOULD STORED POWER BE ALLOWED?
    The America's Cup teams returned to court Tuesday (July 21st), and among the issues were the rules for the 33rd America’s Cup, specifically whether sections of the ISAF Racing Rules of Sailing would be modified to allow for non-manual power to be used for sail trim and other adjustments. The importance of this issue is a result of the America’s Cup defender Alinghi launching their defense catamaran with an engine to power their hydraulic control system. Here are quotes from Bernie Wilson’s AP story:

    Brad Butterworth, Alinghi:
    “We're moving things hydraulically. The loads on this boat are just horrendous. A, it's difficult to gear up for something like that, and B, I think it's safer to have that system, where you don't have so many people cluttering the whole boat, and it makes life a little bit safer for the guys that are sailing the boat. The Cup for me has always been a design race. Now, it's an unlimited design race. This is the most interesting design Cup that's ever been, I think, because there's just no parameters. You can do what you want.”

    Russell Coutts, BMW Oracle Racing:
    “An engine in an America's Cup boat? If that's permitted, it will change the game forever, I think, the wrong way. I don't think I'm alone on that one. I think without doing a survey, I bet the vast majority of people would be against that. The big boats, the big loads, that's part of the physical challenge of sailing any of the Cup boats I've sailed on. If you take that aspect out, you're changing the game dramatically.”

    The complexity of the issue also involves how the Deed of Gift stipulates that the America’s Cup is to be run using the defense club’s rules and regulations, which approved only manual power in 2007 (when the challenge was issued) and 2008 but dismissed this rule for 2009.

    Assuming that the 2009 rules prevail…what do you think… should the
    America’s Cup allow for stored power to help sail the boats? Vote here:
    http://www.sailingscuttlebutt.com/polls/09/0721/
  7. brian eiland

    brian eiland Senior Member

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    Unlimited Hydro

    From Anarchist GMT in the America's Cup Anarchy Forum.

    OK, I could go on about the fact that while Ellison hides behind a desk and his crew hide behind helmets, Bertarelli builds an amazing boat, skippers it himself (sans helmet), and flies the hull the first day out. Come on! Anybody with an ounce of personal pride and a love of sailing (hold on a minute, I'll get to the engine), and especially multihulls has to love that balls-to-the wall, in-your-face response by EB. This has to be point to EB by any rational assessment.

    I could also go on and on about the stupid Indian, all the idiots that have a name starting with H and all you other blind rabid BMWO supporters that can't see past the nose on your face and spin victory out of defeat. You created and supported a stacked deed and deck that now works against you. You wanted the engine gone, said it was going to have to go ,and instead it stays. To be so wrong so often and to have to spend so much time spinning victory from defeat must leave no time for work. How do you do it?

    But, no, this post is not about either of these things. This post is about the engine and why while I originally thought it a bad idea, I now think it's good. And I don't mean good for the AC, or good for LE or EB or either of the teams; I mean good for the multihull cause.

    You see, I love multihulls. They are without a doubt the most efficient (ie best) way to take what nature gives and travel over the water. The designs approach art and the sensation of sailing them approaches flying while monohulls are more like plowing. I do not hate monhulls (indeed race on some) but multis have always been the fastest, most pretty beasts on the water.

    But the monhull crowd wanted what we had so they first went to sportboats with crew hiking like fools to stay up-right and then when they wanted more they decided to cheat. They put engines on their boats to sling a windward hull they call a canting keel across the bottom of their hull. They quickly trim their sails with powered winches. Powered only by man and the wind went out the window much to my dismay. The results, though a bit smelly if downwind, are impressive when they are not sinking as in the the next to last Volvo. Indeed, designs have improved and the cheater boats do amazing things. They are becoming - dare I say it - multihull like in their abilities. The gap has narrowed. BUT THEY DO THIS BY CHEATING THE CODE OF POWERED BY MAN AND THE WIND ONLY.

    Well, for me this is not about the man - EB or LE. I say its time the multihulls show what we can do with an unlimited budget and unconstrained rules. Sure I will always prefer to own and sail without a power assist but at the same time I want to see what an all out, balls-to-the-wall multihull would be like. I want to see speeds and designs that will make a VO70 look like a model T Ford.

    So I say thanks to the NY courts. I can't wait to see the multis that get built and what they can do.
  8. Pascal

    Pascal Senior Member

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    good article...

    I'm on the fence about the engine... yes it is a departure from "conventional" racing but it will stretch the enveloppe a bit.

    what is objectionable is how alinghi changed the rules so late in the game. tehy designed their boat with ballast and hydraulics while BMWO was left in the dark

    btw... I wonder how long BMW is going to remain on board after AC33, they announced today that they are pulling the plug on their formula 1 team.
  9. Hardmy

    Hardmy New Member

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    Some more pics of Alinghi

    I see Alinghi every days passing Montreux where I live. This boat has incredible speed even with very few wind.

    Here are some pictures before first lauching. At this time they seemed to have some problems with the engine.

    If somebody is also in the Geneva lake region just PM me.

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  10. brian eiland

    brian eiland Senior Member

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    Wecome Hardmy. Please keep us up to date with the 'local' gossip and photos.
    Thanks
  11. 84far

    84far Senior Member

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    quote:
    You see, I love multihulls. They are without a doubt the most efficient (ie best) way to take what nature gives and travel over the water. The designs approach art and the sensation of sailing them approaches flying while monohulls are more like plowing. I do not hate monhulls (indeed race on some) but multis have always been the fastest, most pretty beasts on the water.

    couldnt agree more... everything else before and after that is a..... i dont think he or anyone else that agrees with that get this... u cant MATCH RACE in a 90 x 90' cat or tri... this is about the guys sailing the boat, team work, who can pull off the best move, etc

    when Richard Branson join the F1 he only joined so he can help with the use of new fuels that were friendly to the environment.... what are these clowns doing.... who has the biggest..... if they want to spend big, they should put it back into sailing.

    if u dont agree tell me why....

    far
  12. K1W1

    K1W1 Senior Member

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    Hi,

    Maybe I am missing something here.

    It reads to me that the Defenders have the right to change the boat rules right up to the last minute and do not have to let the opposition know in advance.

    This make it kind of one sided if this is correct.

    To have one boat where a lot of the grunt work is done by machine and another where it is done by muscle does not really demonstrate anything cutting edge about the sailing ability of the design.
  13. Kevin

    Kevin YF Moderator

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    The Deed Of Gift is one hell of a convaluted legal document, but I do believe that the design has to be finalized 6 months before the date of the race.
  14. brian eiland

    brian eiland Senior Member

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    Rule 53 - Skin Friction

    There are too many sailing rules. It is a popular contention, and some feel it holds the sport back. Rules experts point out that despite the girth of the rule book, it is only the 14 rules in Part 2 that are relevant on the race course. To provide a simpler rules guide, Scuttlebutt posted in March 2009 an abbreviated rules publication by Ken Quant titled "The Basic Sailboat Racing Rules All Racers Should Know". US SAILING also provides a simplified, pocket sized rules guide to help.

    Now the America's Cup defender, the Swiss Alinghi team, is coming to the rescue as well. For the next Match, they have decided to eliminate six rules from the rule book. Among them is Rule 53 - Skin Friction. The rule reads, "A boat shall not eject or release a substance, such as a polymer, or have specially textured surfaces that could improve the character of the flow of water inside the boundary layer." Without this rule, what is it that we will see on these maxi multihulls?

    The uproar last week at the Swimming World Championship was about the new generation of body suit that is 100% polyurethane, admittedly better and soon to be banned from that sport. So that is one option. What about air hockey?
    How cool would it be for tiny air jets along the hull to lift the boat up and out of the water? Better yet, how about bow jets emitting a substance so the hulls glide through something more slippery than saltwater? There has to be some kind of chemical that is faster to sail through than saltwater.

    The America's Cup has always been a source of technology break-thrus that trickle down into the sport. Let's hope this isn't one of them. --
    Scuttleblog, http://www.sailingscuttlebutt.com/blog/2009/08/rule-53.html
  15. AMG

    AMG YF Moderator

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    This is what we did already in the 60:s...;)
  16. Yacht News

    Yacht News YF News Editor

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    Wouldn't that be at the expense of the ocean and sea life?
  17. brian eiland

    brian eiland Senior Member

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    BTW to avoid confusion it was not me specifically that suggest this release of foreign fluids to improve friction losses....that was a quote from a Scuttlebut blog that rumored that situation.
  18. brian eiland

    brian eiland Senior Member

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    Alinghi 5 was launched on Lake Geneva by the world's biggest helicopter on 9 July; the culmination of over a year's work. Central to the design and ongoing development are - among the 27 other team members on the design team - Grant Simmer, design team co-ordinator; Rolf Vrolijk, chief designer; and Dirk Kramers, chief engineer...

    ...interesting interview here in Sept issue of Seahorse Magazine
  19. brian eiland

    brian eiland Senior Member

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    Will They Use Hard Wing Sails?

    When you compare testing time versus competition time, there likely are not too many events with such an extreme ratio as the America's Cup. With this next event being held in revolutionary maxi multihulls, there is significant interest in what the teams are doing, and among the burning questions is whether they will use a hard wing sail.

    Wing sails are standard in the 25-foot C-Class catamarans, and the Stars & Stripes team tested both a soft and hard sail rig on the 60-foot catamarans used in their successful 1988 defense. However, for either of the teams to use a wing sail in the 33rd America's Cup, they would have to first overcome some hurdles: short development time and the non-sailing logistics for the unprecedented rig size.

    Said BMW Oracle team CEO Russell Coutts, "We are working on a wing in depth, however, the complexity of handling a wing of this size would be a significant challenge."

    By sheer coincidence, the last time someone tried to develop a hard wing sail for a multihull might have been Ben Hall for his 18-foot A-Class Catamaran, whose company - Hall Spars & Rigging - has been building the masts for the BMW Oracle Racing trimaran.

    Ben completed the rig prior to the 2007 Worlds, and in retrospect, he notes about his wing, "It was one thing to build a complex lightweight structure and another thing on how to make it go fast on the racecourse."

    Read on for Ben's full report:
    http://www.sailingscuttlebutt.com/news/09/0810/
  20. yipster

    yipster New Member

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    phew, that boat can hardly get better. aspect ratio or wingsails is one thing
    deltawing vortex with angled thus more leading edge another etc etc
    but looking at the pics they have planty, did you see that guy up in the mast?
    [​IMG]
    my super rig dreams were recently woken up tho by a THERE IS NO SUBSTITUE FOR CUBIC INCHES
    one sail has the efficiency but having planty THERE IS NO SUBSTITTUE FOR FREE SQUARE INCHES