Click for Burger Click for Perko Click for Delta Click for Westport Click for Comfort

Maltese Falcon in a bit of a prang

Discussion in 'General Sailing Discussion' started by Codger, Oct 5, 2008.

  1. Codger

    Codger YF Wisdom Dept.

    Joined:
    May 29, 2005
    Messages:
    923
    Location:
    Western Canada
  2. Kevin

    Kevin YF Moderator

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2004
    Messages:
    3,049
    Location:
    Montreal, Qc, Canada
    "Sorry about that... I totally didn't see that two hundred and eighty nine foot vessel RIGHT IN FRONT OF ME!"

    :rolleyes:
  3. brunick

    brunick Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2005
    Messages:
    633
    Location:
    earth
    in the end of the picture series you see the damage done by the small sail boat - i guess that damage might cost more than his boat :D
  4. Yacht News

    Yacht News YF News Editor

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2006
    Messages:
    25,385
    Location:
    Caribbean
    Wow, it seems as though as one of the female crew members was a bit in shock at the damage to the caprail and the scuff on the hull. "What will the boss say about this?"
  5. vivariva

    vivariva Senior Member

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2007
    Messages:
    187
    Location:
    Istanbul, Turkey
    Probably waiting for the Falcon to tack to port since he was approaching on starboard tack :D.
  6. Blair

    Blair New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2008
    Messages:
    108
    Location:
    Kaipara Harbour
    You may be right about assumptions of the starboard advantage applying and the smaller yacht expecting Maltese Falcon to bail out and tack clear but no excuse for the collison notwithstanding - for either vessel really. Also, is there not a normal 500GRT exception as to an ability to rely on starboard-hand course rights? The skipper seemed to be total shock as he/she carried on with the genoa back-winded after the prang. He was probably checking his policy as a first priority! No doubt the US Coast Guard's report will be of some interest to the insurers.
  7. Codger

    Codger YF Wisdom Dept.

    Joined:
    May 29, 2005
    Messages:
    923
    Location:
    Western Canada
    Whatever the rules, although I think that Maltese Falcon is a commercial vessel, expecting a vessel that size to take evasive action is foolhardy at best.
    I'm sure that if Mr Bassani took Alcatraz and mounted it on a hull there would still be someone out on the bay expecting it to give way.
  8. Blair

    Blair New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2008
    Messages:
    108
    Location:
    Kaipara Harbour
    Fully agree - if this particular guy was assuming (doubtful?) course rights or just playing a game of chicken in a silly match the odds were always going to be a hiding to nothing. Mind you, he got closer being aboard Maltese Falcon than most of us will ever do!
  9. Pascal

    Pascal Senior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 29, 2008
    Messages:
    8,120
    Location:
    Miami, FL
    while both boats are at fault for not avoiding the collision, which Rule states that a sailing vessel on STBD tack needs to give way to a larger sailing vessel on PORT tack?

    sure, the guy should have tacked away and not forced the issue but... and again, in a collision both sides are responsible to some degree, but in this case, being on port tack Maltese Falcon was the give way vessel, wasn't she?

    unless the other vessel failed to maintain course and speed, obviously...
  10. Castlerock

    Castlerock Senior Member

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2006
    Messages:
    215
    Location:
    New England
    Pascal you are forgetting the rules that apply to a vessel with limited maneuverability. Thinking that MF could tack away with all her sails full and many other spectator boats around is just foolish, arrogant and his fault.
  11. Loren Schweizer

    Loren Schweizer YF Associate Writer

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2004
    Messages:
    1,352
    Location:
    Coral Gables/Ft. Laud., FL
    Let's put an end to the conjecturing on "rules" here.
    The ONLY rule which applies in this unfortunate instance is 'The Tonnage Rule' (a/k/a 'Might Is Right').
  12. Castlerock

    Castlerock Senior Member

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2006
    Messages:
    215
    Location:
    New England
    This is a common misconception, there is no "Rule of Gross Tonnage" it is an accepted standard as quoted from the Annapolis Book of Seamanship:

    "The so-called "gross tonnage rule," an informal advisory, says that small boats should always stay out of the way of big boats, no matter what the Navigation Rules say."

    and the US Coast Guard:

    "The law, which is more common sense then explicitly written in the code, goes like this: “The heavier vessel always has the right-of-way.”"
  13. Pascal

    Pascal Senior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 29, 2008
    Messages:
    8,120
    Location:
    Miami, FL
    it is common sense not to get in the way of a significantly larger vessel which may be less maneuvrable, but the ONLY rules that apply are the Nav Rules and the words "rule of tonnage" are not in there...

    If they were both racing, then it seems to me that the give way vessel has to give way regardless of size. If a big boy doens't want to give way to the small guy, he has no business racing...

    The danger with interpretation is that it's no longer clear cut as it is with the ROR. "the heavier vessel has the right-of-way" is a highly misleading statement. how much much heavier? does it mean a 20' center console should stay out of the way of an 50' Sportfish? Were do you draw the line?
  14. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2008
    Messages:
    11,205
    Location:
    Long Island, NY
    Looks like someone out on the bay forgot about Constrained By Draft & Restricted in Ability to Maneuver. I remember being out on the Sound a few years ago and hearing a regatta official hailing a tug with tow to adjust his course to stear clear of some of their wayward sailboats as if he could do anything.
  15. Blair

    Blair New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2008
    Messages:
    108
    Location:
    Kaipara Harbour
    Rather like the yacht that sought to sail through the gap between the tug and its barge off the North Island coast of New Zealand a few years ago? Another tragic result of lost lives when the keel hit the tow line. Locally in NZ, we do have a specific tonnage rule exclusion to STB hand rights and colliding course avoidance rules in addition to the more general restricted draft and/or maneuverability exception.

    One would expect that MF had an adequate watch and was blasting its horn and waving arms with some vigour, if not luffing up to port, nonetheless. Given also that he hit about midships (so it was a fait accompli as an outcome - if he held his course - for perhaps a good 30secs or so) it's amazing that the smaller yacht skipper did not dump his main, throw the wheel and bear off downwind - which would only take 5 seconds at most. Maybe though, just maybe, he was intent on a dramatic method of suicide or perhaps wanted a bit of MF's paint and cap rail extracted from his bow to sell on Ebay?

    We have all done fairly stupid things in gaining our experience in life but sometimes you do wonder.
  16. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2008
    Messages:
    11,205
    Location:
    Long Island, NY
    There's stupid; then there is stupid, but then there is T-boning Maltese Falcon. There had to be a hundred ways to avoid that mid-ship hit. Possibly starting with opening one's eyes. The unfortunate thing is that in the event of a collision all parties are considered at fault and on that the lawyers will earn their keep for although the MF may have acted properly or even the only way they could they are the deep pockets.
  17. Pascal

    Pascal Senior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 29, 2008
    Messages:
    8,120
    Location:
    Miami, FL
    "Looks like someone out on the bay forgot about Constrained By Draft & Restricted in Ability to Maneuver"

    this looks like it happened quite a distance off shore, with enough water. I dont' think CBD applies here, and i don't see the CBD day shape on MF. And doens't CBD only apply to POWER vessels?

    RAM? that only applies due to "the nature of her work"... ex.. divers, dregding, etc... Racing doesn't qualify a vessel for RAM. come on now, you can't race if you're not able to maneuver!! if the skipper of a sailing vessel gets on the start line but can't maneuver very well, he has no business racing!

    again, the smaller boat shares some of the blame, but he was the stand on vessel, MF being on port tack was give way.
  18. Codger

    Codger YF Wisdom Dept.

    Joined:
    May 29, 2005
    Messages:
    923
    Location:
    Western Canada
    The friend that told me about this and sent me the link said that Maltese Falcon was just out cruising, not racing. Participating in a fund raiser of some sort.


    NYCAP123. You probably have a point with the legal eagles hovering around on this. California is one of the most litigious places on this planet.
  19. Yacht News

    Yacht News YF News Editor

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2006
    Messages:
    25,385
    Location:
    Caribbean
    The Lukemia Cup I think...
  20. Blair

    Blair New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2008
    Messages:
    108
    Location:
    Kaipara Harbour
    I'm not Solomon but I just think he was (totally) stupid, not totally wrong.