Hey all... I need some advice/information. We currently own a 1990 64' Vantare. This vessel, though very nice, doesn't meet our long-term needs for long range cruising and live aboard. We looking to replace it with a trawler/expedition yacht, and herein lies the rub: Do we go with new or used? Production or custom build? I know a lot depends on our needs and budget, so let's lay some basic parameters: Minimum/Maximum length: 55'/75' Max. Budget: $2.4 million (that's a stretch, but possible) A flybridge is desired, since we cruise a lot on the US west coast. We've looked at so many boats, all the plans and specs are beginning to run together. We've been aboard the Nordhavn 55, and like it a lot, but haven't sea trialed one yet. The price vs. attributes is very attractive (approx. $1.75 mil for a new one, fully tricked out). The new Nordhavn 64, at $2.6 mil, is out of our range. We've also discussed the new Chuck Neville 56 and Seaton 60. We like the new Seaton 60 design even more than the Nordhavn 55, but for $2.4 mil, is it really 37.5% more boat than the Nordhavn? We've also looked at Selene, but their fit/finish have come into question... as is their ability to really do a trans-oceanic crossing. Used boats are an option, but I prefer to keep them less than 3 years old, if at all possible. However, a quality used vessel isn't out of the question, if a trade for my current boat can be arranged. There's a 2005 Nordhavn 62 out there that intrigues me. Though no flybridge, it might be worthwhile looking into. So, when all is said and done, does anybody out there have anything positive or negative to say about any designers/builders. Am looking for objectivity, to the extent possible, with real world owner's experience to back up any commentary. Thanks for listening, and I look forward to all replies and advice. Chuck Newman
Have a look at Farmont Explorer I saw the new Farmont 70 feet Explorer Yacht on the German Boat Show It is offered for 2.1 Million Euro ( 2,7 Million $ ) I think if you make an offer around 1.7- 1.8 € it could be yours. You will find details also www.farmontyachts.com Have fun.
Very nice looking vessel, thank you. However, I failed to mention in my initial post that we prefer a single screw, with a get home mechanism (BAT, Wing, etc.). IMHO, Twins screws (which we have now) tend to be less fuel efficient, and have a higher overall cost of ownership. I also feel a need to clarify what I seek in this thread. It's difficult to see past all the hype and BS one sees in the ads and sales discussions, both on the phone and face to face. What I'm hoping to get is some real life owner's feedback on what they've found out there, both positive and negative. Share your experience with a buy/build process, so others (i.e., me ) may learn from it. For example, did a design/build go as promised, and remain in budget? If things went south, why, and how could it have been avoided?
Saw the new 80' Northern Marine in the February Showboat Magazine, It is a Single Screw. I see on their website they also do a 57' and a 64'. http://www.northernmarine.com/lrcs.php
twin screws actually have a tendancy to be more fuel efficient than singles. here are the main reason why, twin screws require smaller engines running at a lower RPM to achieve the same performance as a single screw. the thrust is also balanced between port and starboard which also gives more ease of handling and less prop-walk just my 2 cents here, if you have the July 2006 issue of POWER AND MOTORYACHT it goes into more detail about fuel effiency with twin screws.
For that kind of money I would get twin screws in a hearthbeat. Easier to maneuver, more redundant than big single with a go-home system. (Some of them go-home jobs use a sail-drive that is sitting idle and corroding away as it is never being used untill the day ya need it, then it does not work) Go twin and buy a few extra jugs of oil and few spare filters. If ya were a budget guy looking for a $50K trawler, by all means go for a single with a 15 HP yamaha outboard on a bracket to take ya home when ya clog the main filter or run out of diesel, but for $2mill, get the real thing. Ya can probably afford the extra maintenance, especially if ya buy new. (No immediate overhauls) I drove somebodys single screw trawler down the New River in Ft. Lauderdale a few years ago, it was a ***** to hande, and I am used to singel engine sailboats... Then the engine stopped just before the 3rd avenue bridge, lots of traffic and current..... Lady Luck kicked in with the wind blowing us sideways and the current stopped the forward motion. We slowly but sure blew right in between 2 docked boats, then a couple of wide-eyed tourists on the water-front grabbed our dock lines. It probably looked pretty slick from a distance but my hearth did not beat right for the next few days..
Don't get me wrong... I like twin screws (I have twin 8V92s now). However, I really like the idea of a (relatively) large derated, continuous duty single. The twins result in 2 of everything (transmissions, shafts, props, rudders, controls, etc.), thus giving redundancy, but also doubling maintenance. I've accepted the fact there are pros and cons to all scenarios, and am weighing all aspects. Since my marina is at the far end of LA Harbor, I've about 5 miles of 5 kt. water to navigate until I hit a higher speed limit area, so it's a perfect place to exercise whatever get home setup I wind up with... which won't be a sail I don't want to get too hung up on configuration in this thread. What I seek is feedback (again, positive and negative) on designers/boatyards. Are there any Nordhavn owners on this board? If so, do you like your vessel, or do you hate it? Does anybody out here own a Seaton design? Park Isle? Chuck Neville? Northern Marine? Molokai Strait? Same question. A copy of Circumnavigator magazine (a Nordhavn publication) given to me by a Nordhavn rep had rave reviews of Hull #1 of their 55' which came out in 2005. Guess what... Hull #1 is now for sale in Newport Beach not 2 years after initial delivery. I wonder why...
the back of LA harbor ?? where are you at there ?? Yacht Haven ?? Leeward ?? do you know if the chowder barge is still open?? i heard some rumors that they closed, but haven't had the time to go and see if the rumors were true.
Well, not quite all the way back. I'm at California Yacht Marina, at the junction of Main and Cerritos channels, at the turning basin (between Ripple and Amazing Grace). I've arguably the best night time view on the harbor... the entire span of the Vincent Thomas Bridge all lit up. If it weren't for the dirt generated by the refineries and the scrap metal yard across the channel, it'd be heaven. As it stands now, keeping my boat clean is a never ending job. Don't know about the Chowder Barge, but Berth 55 (ptomaine factory) is still open. How, I've no idea. You?
i used to own a 1965 Fairliner, 35' cabin cruiser, kept it in Yacht Haven, CYM, thats right next to Yacht Haven, ... just further down the channel on the inland side is where leeward is, the chowder barge is there. think i'll have to make a stop by next week sometime. never been to berth 55 before ... any good ?? or god no ?
Hmmm... the chowder barge might be worth a dinghy putt up the channel to check out... not sure if it's still there, or not. Let me know what you find out. Berth 55 is hit and miss. The spicy shrimp skewer is quite tasty, and I've had some decent sandwiches there. It's a dump, and might rate a B or even a C from the Health Dept. What ever you get, make sure they cook the hell out of it. Definitely not a place to take a date
Chuck: Your boat is the 62 Nordy. Lightly used is the way to go and, since I am "close to the business", I know from whence I speak. The house aft provides a comfy ride, the resale is there, and, yes, these boats appear back on the market sooner than might be expected because the dreamers out there sometimes don't know their capabilities or are unfit, psychologically, for the long distance thing. That engine room designed for midgets is about the only issue.
Loren, Funny you should mention that. At first glance, I dismissed the Nordy 62, as I like a flybridge. However, after watching their video of the transatlantic crossing, as well as seeing one up close and personal (w/o actually boarding it), I'm beginning to change my mind. It just looks.... stout (for lack of a better term). I also like the idea that the upper stern deck (behind the PH) cover can be a hard top or canvas... lending itself perfectly to installation of a retractable awning for those day when you want some sun. I know it sounds trivial... but is important to the wife. Lack of headroom in the engine room is an issue, but not a huge one. As long as I don't have to crawl over (and sit on) the main engine to service a GenSet, or be a contortionist to service a transmission, I'm a reasonably happy guy. I have to do both on my Vantare right now... and I hate it There's a 2005 62 for sale ($1.8+) coming into Florida from St. Marten that interests me. I also spoke with one of their brokers, and one can still get into a brand new, well equipped 62 for around $2.1 or so. Am working with the broker to go out on a 55 and a 62 when they sea trial them after repairs/commissioning out of Dana Pt. here in SoCal. Have you checked out the 55? Seems to be a very nice vessel.
farmont Although you have mentioned that you are not interested in the Farmont, I would like to comment that I have boarded this boat in Düsseldorf and I was very impressed by the quality, both esthetically and technically. The wood work was one of the best I have come across, including the upper scale Dutch yards. Layout very good and lots of space indoors and outdoors. If you are warming up for Nordhavn 62, I suggest you check Farmont as well. Nordhavn is very good, but Farmont in my opinion exceptional. I happen to have the specs, which I can share here: SHORT SPECIFICATION VOYAGER 70 I .1.1 Builder: • FARMONT YACHTS GmbH & Co. KG I .1.2 Naval Architect: • KERWIN NAVAL ARCHITECTS, INC. I .1.3 Systems & Electrical Engineers • FARMONT YACHTS GMBH & Co. KG. Main information: • Name Explorer • Length over all 21.32. m (70’-0”) • Length waterline 20.50 m (67’-3”) • Beam 6.20 m (20’-4”) • Draft 1.65 m (5’-5”) • Displacement 92 tones (FULL LOAD) • Type Motor Yacht • Construction Composite E-glass/Epoxy/ PVC foam • Engines 2 XCUMMINS QSM 11, 450bhp(336kw)@2100 rpm • Max speed approx 12 knots • Cruising speed 10 knots • Speeds will be tested at trial period with 50% of fuel capacity. • Tank Capacities: Fuel 23,000 l. (6085 U.S. gallons) Fresh Water 2000 l. (529 U.S. gallons) Grey Water 1900 l. (500 U.S. gallons) Black Water 1900 l. (500 U.S. gallons) Lube Oil 200 l. (52 U.S. gallons) Dirty Oil (Sludge) 200 l. (52 U.S. gallons) Bilge Tank 1500 l. (395 U.S gallons) System Information: • Hydraulic System PTO from main engines and electric power pack. • Steering Hydraulic with 316 SS rudders. • Shafts BT Marine B.V. or equal with Aquadrive couplings. • Propellers BT Marine B.V. or equal. Aquaskew 4 bladed. • Generators 1x 22kw (approx.) 50Hz, 380 VAC. Fresh water cooled. • Electric system 380 VAC, 220 VAC, 24V DC • Bow Thruster ABT 12 TRAC (40hp) • Stabilizers ABT TRAC 250 • Anchors 2- 160 kg anchors, 2- 110m x 16mm chain. • Anchor Windlass 2- 1500 kg hydraulic vertical with capstans. • Aft Deck Capstans 2- 750 kg vertical rope capstans. • Mast Composite construction, hydraulically folding. • Fire system High capacity pumps and hoses. FM 200 in engine room • Water maker Sea Recovery 180 l/h or equal. • HVAC System for heating and air conditioning. Extractor fans. • Port lights SCM polished SS with deadlights. • Horn Kahlenburg • Searchlight Jabsco • Life raft 1 x 12 person • Compressed air system Outlets in engine room and lazzarette. • Bridge equipment Radar/Chart plotter, VFH Radio, Autopilot, Magnetic Compass. • Teak Decks Main deck aft, Upper decks and Portuguese bridge deck. • Paint Polyurethane Marine system- International or equal. • Interior Paint 2 component acrylic. • Interior Woodwork Wood species- Oak, Cherry, Mahogany or equal. • Floors Stone- Heads/Galley. Carpet- Salon/Cabins. Wood- Pilothouse • Ceilings Upholstered- Majilite or equal. • Toilets Tecma with integral Bidet fittings. • Interior Lighting 24v DC. Palagi fixtures. • Entertainment 1 TV and 1 DVD player in all Cabins. Surround system in Salon. • Galley equipment Siemens oven, cooktop, hood, dishwasher. ISE trash compactor • Other appliances Bar fridge and icemaker in Pilothouse. Bar fridge in Crew Quarters • Laundry Full size Bosch Washer and Dryer • Exterior Upholstery Sunbrella Fyg, I have no connection to Farmont in any way.
Nilo, I have to agree AND disagree with you. I spent a couple of hours going through the Farmont, making notes, taking pics and asking questions. Lots of 'em! First... this boat is built like a real ship. Redundancy abounds in the engine room and the hull laminate rivals steel. From an accommodations perspective, this boat also has a very unique lay-out. I like it! But... the fit & finish, specifically in the engine room and the exterior sub-structures was NOT up to par with other boats mentioned. Maybe they have come up to speed with subsequent launches, but their first boat looked like a rush job.
Bandido 75 The Bandido 75 looks pretty nice. I've been on their 90 at the Düsseldorf boat show and they have really done a great job. I only think that this one will blow your budget. The ask €6mln for a fully fitted 90. Take a look at http://www.bandido-yachts.com
Carl, Could very well be, although I have not stayed more than an hour I had the chance to go through the boat. what I have seen was exceptional. All the wood work matches, with very clean and good finish. I cannot tell similar observations for Bandido. Contrary to Farmont, Bandido both in the engine room and also in the finish was not up to quality standarts.
