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Shore Power

Discussion in 'General Yachting Discussion' started by Kats Call, May 22, 2022.

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  1. Kats Call

    Kats Call New Member

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    Thisone you think?

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  2. Kats Call

    Kats Call New Member

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  3. mapism

    mapism Senior Member

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    If you mean the two Hager components in between the two breakers, yes I do. They are called "contactors", and they work as follows:
    When the so-called "control contacts" (A1 and A2, with the smaller wires in the center) are powered, the coil electromagnet inside closes all pairs of upper and lower contacts (1 to 2, 3 to 4, 5 to 6, and - you guessed by now - 7 to 8).
    Both these contactors are of NO (normally open) type, which means that when A1+A2 are NOT powered, all contact pairs are disconnected.
    And both are rated for up to 63A on the main contacts (1...8).

    Now, it's impossible to tell for sure from your pic alone, but I suspect that they are wired to handle some kind of automatic connection/disconnection between EITHER shore OR genset, avoiding the risk of clash between the two power sources.

    There is one very weird thing though, which I didn't notice before:
    These components are often used to switch AC power by mean of a DC signal, so I've seen them used with 24V A1+A2 control contacts.
    But yours are actually the version designed to work with 230V!
    This is not so relevant for the main contacts 1...8, but they are EU components anyhow, NOT designed for 120V.
    Now, don't ask me what happens if you feed 120V instead of 230V into A1 and A2. After all, they just control a simple electromagnet inside, which MIGHT be tolerant enough to work also with 120V.
    But it's an improper usage anyway, that's for sure.
    Last edited: May 22, 2022
  4. Kats Call

    Kats Call New Member

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    Noted! thank you again.
  5. Pascal

    Pascal Senior Member

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    I would assume that it is the one NOT marked generator but I find it odd that it is not next to its breaker. You want to make sure that someone didn’t swap them and failed to mark them properly.

    there has to be some kind of safety connection to make sure both sides can’t be activated at the same time.
  6. mapism

    mapism Senior Member

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    I don't think it's that simple Pascal, because 3 of the 4 main contact pairs appear to be used (large-ish black+red+white power cables), and pretty sure this ain't a 3-phase boat.
    That's one of the reasons why I guessed that the two contactors are interconnected, in order to allow either shore or genset to be active, but never both.

    BTW, what's the colour coding on your side of the Pond? Black/white/red make no sense in EU, for AC wires.
  7. Kats Call

    Kats Call New Member

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    Good point. I ordered two new ones. Stay posted for details. Of course they have to come from overseas. I couldn't find the ES 463 I hope the ESC is the upgrade.
  8. Kats Call

    Kats Call New Member

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    Again I'm no electrician but I believe that Black and Red are hot and White is Neutral. I THINK.
  9. Pascal

    Pascal Senior Member

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    Neutral is white, hot is black or red. Typically boats in that size range will have 120/240v 50a shore power with 2 120v hots even if they don’t have any 240v systems.
    In Europe 240v is 240v between hot and neutral. Here it is 240v between the two hots. Neutral isn’t used in 240v devices.

    so you will usually bring two 120v wires plus the Neutral and ground obviously. Each 120v got will power each half of the panel and if there are any 240v appliances, they are powered powered off a subpanel using the 2 hots only.
  10. mapism

    mapism Senior Member

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    Aha, I see.
    So, considering that the control contacts A1 and A2 appear to be fed by black and red wires, they might be meant to close the main contacts when both hots are available?
    I must admit that I can't figure the logic anyway, also because if so they would only work with both shore power connected.
    The output of single phase US gensets is on just one 120V/60Hz hot+neutral line, 'innit?
  11. captholli

    captholli Senior Member

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    If the holding coil for the contactor is rated for 230 but has had 120 on it for an extended time than I would venture that the coil is open. Check the continuity on the contactor holding coil.
  12. mapism

    mapism Senior Member

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    Good point, captholli.
    That could also explain the higher absorption that trips off the 0.5A breaker.
    Unless the coil is actually wired to work at 240V through a pair of 12oV hots - unusual as it would be, for my own experience at least.

    Anyhow, we are now doing doing a lot of guesswork.
    Lacking an electrical scheme, I think there's no replacement for an electrician checking what is what, methinks.
    Asking him also to make a drawing for future reference, while he is at that.
  13. Pascal

    Pascal Senior Member

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    every gen I ve used from 5kw to 50kw outputs two 120v hot on opposing phases also providing 240 like shore power

    I ll take a manual transfer, thank you
  14. mapism

    mapism Senior Member

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    I see. Every day is a school day, thanks!
    Though coming to think of it, I guess it makes sense to keep full consistency with the shore connections arrangement.

    I couldn't agree more ref. preferring a plain vanilla manual selection of AC source, if that's what you mean by manual transfer.
  15. Capt Ralph

    Capt Ralph Senior Member

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    You kids have made some progress.
    The Brits seem to have a nicer auto X-over than the stuff I have seen here in the states.
    I would have enjoyed V/O testing on it for my own sense of adventure.
    Probably some internal carbon tracks messing one of the packs up.
    Maybe / maybe not Din railed, but there should be a state side comparable replacement contactor available. Maybe Viking USA has them stocked locally.

    Eerrr, aahh, oohh, I'd still would like it if a real tech up there checked out everything before throwing parts at it.

    But, for DIY, I guess your plan is o k.
  16. Greg Page

    Greg Page Active Member

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    My Viking had a hard to locate breaker problem, that is unti I pulled out the cockpit mounted breaker and one of the terminals fell off, wire attached. Would check the connections and terminals on all the breakers in the path. Mine worked "perfect" up until the minute that it first didn't.

    To my amazement Viking had them in stock for my 1986 boat and shipped one the same day. Definatly best service on a boat ever.

    -Greg