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2012 441 Generator Question

Discussion in 'Generators' started by Chazerooney, Oct 2, 2021.

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  1. Chazerooney

    Chazerooney New Member

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    I'm in the middle of purchasing a 2012 Meridian 441 and the oil analysis on the generator came back with "ABNORMAL COPPER AND SEVERE LEAD". It only has 640 hours since new. Anyone have any experience here? We plan to be depending on it heavily and the last thing I need is for it to go out in the middle of our time in Florida from Jan to May. I'm less concerned about the money than the inconvenience it will cause. Should I be concerned? Anyone know what it costs to have a shop go through one of these things and bring it up to snuff?
  2. Pascal

    Pascal Senior Member

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    What brand and what size??? Diesel or gas? I m guessing diesel although meridian built many gassers

    have you talked to the surveyor to get his opinion ?

    60 hours a year isn’t much. How old is the oil ?
  3. Chazerooney

    Chazerooney New Member

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    Oil was changed in the spring. They didn't use it much due to COVID. Onan diesel 13.5kw. Getting various opinions. Do you have any idea what an overhaul would cost?
  4. Capt Ralph

    Capt Ralph Senior Member

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    Put fresh oil in it and run her till the wheels fall off.

    Probably metals from break-in that has never been cleaned out.
    I would not worry about it but lack of use over all, could still be a problem.

    That small Kubota is cheaper to replace than rebuild. Warranty better also on a new motor.

    On the valve cover is the engine model number. Starts with a D or V and 4 numbers.
    ie; V1100 D1500

    Shop for this number on the web for a new engine price. Add $1000 for labor and there is your discount you want from the seller.

    Also, You always have a place to ship the core,,, to me.. I luv lil Kubota engines.
  5. Capt Ralph

    Capt Ralph Senior Member

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    If it runs, bringing it up to snuff would be changing oil, fuel and air filters.
    First valve adjustment may be at 1000 hours.
  6. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    What were the actual PPM of lead and copper?
  7. Capt Ralph

    Capt Ralph Senior Member

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    Just woke back up with this on my mind. I see Capt J is already on it.
    Sometimes an oil lab that usually does cars and not marine diesel engines over reacts when some numbers come in high.
    The numbers really need to be posted for some more responses to come back to you.
  8. Chazerooney

    Chazerooney New Member

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    Thank you gentlemen for sharing any wisdom you have,

    Lead 49 Copper 87 Lead had a red indication the copper had a yellow. This was done by a company that does oil analysis for the Marine Surveyor.

    My issue is that I'm paying an over market price for a low time boat (290hrs on the engines 640 on the generator) hoping it won't immediately start unloading my checkbook. And we all know how a generator failure can ruin an otherwise nice outing.

    This is what the surveyor wrote. It seems like wishful thinking;

    OIL ANALYSIS REPORT CAME BACK WITH ABNORMAL COPPER AND SEVERE LEAD IN THE GENERATOR. THIS MAY BE DUE TO BEARING/BUSHING WEAR. RECOMMEND CHECKING FOR OIL PRESSURE DROP OR ANY ABNORMAL NOISE AND MONITOR

    RECOMMENDATIONS :
    REMOVE AND REPLACE ALL BELTS
    REMOVE AND REPLACE ALL IMPELLERS
    REMOVE AND REPLACE ALL FLUIDS AND FILTERS
    ADJUST VALVES
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2021
  9. Capt Ralph

    Capt Ralph Senior Member

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    290 hours on the engines? A 10 year old boat?
    Cummins? I can see lift pumps coming real soon.

    Still don't see big red flags, just cautions.
    With that little hours, may never of had a proper oil change.

    Plastic sample pick up tube may have scratched the inside bottom of pan also, picking up extra settled material from pan bottom.

    I would rather have some hours on them.
    Real low hours / lack of use as these, is not a better selling point, IMO.

    Better be sweet clean in & out and look like new.
    Don't bent over to much.
  10. Capt Ralph

    Capt Ralph Senior Member

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    If this is your surveyor, Not the brokers or sellers, Tell him of my comments and my PM. See if he has any additional comments.
  11. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    That's NOTHING, unless you see over 200 PPM, you're worrying for nothing. Change the oil, run the generator 100 hours a year or more like it should be run and do an oil sample again at 100 hours.
  12. Chazerooney

    Chazerooney New Member

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    Thank you gentlemen. Maybe it's not such a big problem in the first place.
  13. Chazerooney

    Chazerooney New Member

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    Thanks for your comments. By lift pumps do you mean the ones that supply cooling water to the engines?
  14. Capt Ralph

    Capt Ralph Senior Member

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    First electric fuel pump to the main engines.
  15. Chazerooney

    Chazerooney New Member

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    Okay, how long do these tend to last and do they give any warning or do they just go out immediately and your engines overheat?
  16. Chazerooney

    Chazerooney New Member

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    Sorry I was thinking abouut cooling. Do they give any warning signs or do they just quit all at once killing the engines?
  17. Chazerooney

    Chazerooney New Member

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    I assume each engine has one for true redundancy
  18. Capt Ralph

    Capt Ralph Senior Member

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    redundancy?
    One per engine. Fail without warning.
    When they die, engine wont start.
    IMO, not necessarily hours, but calendar age.
    IMO an Achilles Heel on the Cummins engines.
  19. GPO

    GPO Member

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    Not necessarily age-related either based on my experience at the time - 2 years old and less than 250 hours on my Cummins engines then. In conversations with my sources back then, fuel lift pumps on Cummins engines had been an issue for a time. I say “for a time” because again based on my experience I believe Cummins subsequently resolved the issue. At least with the QSC 8.3 550 HO engines that I run. Seven years and many more hours later, no recurrences.

    Best to check with a Cummins factory approved shop. They’ll likely be familiar with the issue and it’s resolution.
  20. Capt Ralph

    Capt Ralph Senior Member

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    At the time of these fuel pump calamities, The Area factory shop did admit there "may be a problem" and "were trying to purge the suspect pumps out of inventory".
    What that meant, They were not releasing any new pumps till the old ones were gone.
    Yep, our largest fiasco was on 8.3 HOs. New November 2008. Pumps started failing early 2014, then every 10 to 12 months for 3 cycles. Last pumps been working over 4 years now.
    We had some issues on the smaller QSBs also, just not so major.

    If the OPs purchase engines have been dock queens all these 10 years with original pumps, It would be entertaining to see what happens when some real use is accumulated..
    Fail or last forever???

    I do hate dock queens like this one. Age but no history (hours) on the equipment.
    It's a strange gamble that can win / loose quickly.
    I do hope it turns into a winner.
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2021