Click for Westport Click for Northern Lights Click for Furuno Click for Ocean Alexander Click for Nordhavn

Post 50 Fresh Water System a recommendation

Discussion in 'Post Yacht' started by Seth Fisher, May 21, 2019.

You need to be registered and signed in to view this content.
  1. Seth Fisher

    Seth Fisher Member

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2016
    Messages:
    43
    Location:
    RI
    Post 50
    110v Sta-rite pump issues

    I’ve been fighting issues with the shallow well pump that came with the boat. I’ve replaced the entire pump and tank once already, just had to replace the pump head because it cracked. I’m looking for suggestions on a full replacement.

    2 heads
    2 showers
    3 sinks
    2 cockpit faucets
  2. Pascal

    Pascal Senior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 29, 2008
    Messages:
    8,097
    Location:
    Miami, FL
    When you said you replaced the tank, I m guessing you meant the accumulator tank?

    The best pump out there is probably the Heqdhunter Mach 5, factory installed by many builders, on 50/60+. They can be a little tricky to purge and are very sensitive to air leaks on the intake side but excellent flow, pressure and quiet. Headhunter make some very good accumulator tanks too

    Some here have recommended Groundfos pumps. no personal experience but cheaper and supposedly just as good as HH

    Right now I have a shallowell pump on my personal 53 hatt. Forgot the brand...works well but a bit loud

    In any case I would always have a DC back up in case you have a generator issue...
  3. Capt Ralph

    Capt Ralph Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2004
    Messages:
    12,595
    Location:
    Satsuma, FL
    You want to look at a Grundfos Model SCALA2.
    George C @ DepcoPump turned me on to this beauty.
    What a beast and blows the HH pump away.
    Installed a couple of them a while back. Happy customers still...
  4. Seth Fisher

    Seth Fisher Member

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2016
    Messages:
    43
    Location:
    RI
    It not just the tank but the pump. I think I may have installed the new pet incorrectly. The pump head replacement wasn’t a complete assemby. Good thing the yard kept the cracked one, this pump has a Venturi part that I likely forgot to Install off the old head. Time to go back into the hole and try again. Ralph, I’ll take a look at the model you suggested.
  5. Seth Fisher

    Seth Fisher Member

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2016
    Messages:
    43
    Location:
    RI
    quick update, i found that the entire pump and tank unit needed to be assembled on the boat in order to prime. This was due to the check value installed above the pump unit not allowing the pump to fill with water. Not an idea assembly has I simply used tape to put it back together. It's working an only a minor drip. We'll see what happens once we run her a while... Seems like I will have to do the same thing each year...the more you know...
  6. Pascal

    Pascal Senior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 29, 2008
    Messages:
    8,097
    Location:
    Miami, FL
    well... so much for the Groundfos Scala 2...

    I spent a couple of hours replacing the Mach 5 with a Groundfos. It took some plumbing work since the outlet is in a different location on the pump. To be safe I only used threaded sch 80 PVC in case I had to switch back... and I m glad I did.

    The Groundfos primed right up and worked fine until I tried raising the pressure from 48 to 60 PSI... no luck. It wouldn’t go past 50PSI which isn’t enough to flush the headhunter heads.

    downloading the full manual, I found out that while the GF can go as high as the advertised 70 to 80 PSI, it will only do so if it has 20PSI on pressure coming in the inlet.

    that little detailed isn’t mentioned in the pump specs...

    reinstalled the HH...

    Attached Files:

  7. Capt Ralph

    Capt Ralph Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2004
    Messages:
    12,595
    Location:
    Satsuma, FL
    Pascal
    Sorry you had problems.
    However, I am very confused with your issue.
    After my post above, I have installed this pump on boats with the old HH heads.
    With the pressure accumulator still intact and no adjustments made to the pump, The heads still work perfect.
    I wander if your accumulator has a bad diaphragm on needs some pressure added.
    OR, do you have an accumulator as per the old HH heads install requires?
  8. Pascal

    Pascal Senior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 29, 2008
    Messages:
    8,097
    Location:
    Miami, FL
    I checked the accumulator pressure a couple of weeks ago when I was troubleshooting the HH. Pressure was fine. I don’t recall the number off hand

    the scala 2 cannot over 50 PSI, I have a gauge Teed on the outlet line. If I set the pressure to a higher level on the pump panel, it will keep trying but eventually stop, throw the “can’t reach pressure” error and then automatically lower the pressure setting to default.

    our HH heads are 2009 vintage, don’t know if they more pressure than earlier one but unless the gauge shows 55 to 60 PSI they don’t flush correctly

    I don’t think adding pressure to the accumulator will help as the pump won’t be able to overcome the pressure in the bladder.
  9. Capt Ralph

    Capt Ralph Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2004
    Messages:
    12,595
    Location:
    Satsuma, FL
    How far away are the HH heads from the accumulator?
    Sadly, HH has f***ed up their web site again, no support or install manuals for me to reference to.
    I remember (poorly) some specs.

    Just sorry the Groundfos pump did not work for you. I hate to go out and recommend something and it not work.
    Sorry about that my friend.

    These pumps have worked fine for us on many customer installs.
    Just have to tally it up to; damm moon in the wrong place...
  10. Pascal

    Pascal Senior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 29, 2008
    Messages:
    8,097
    Location:
    Miami, FL
    You wouldn’t think 10 PSI would make a difference but it does...

    the accumulator is forward. Two heads are pretty close (within 6 feet). Two more are about 10 feet away, the master is 15’ and the crew all the way aft maybe 50’. I don’t think distance makes a difference. All these are on the same level, then we have a day head one deck up.
  11. Capt Ralph

    Capt Ralph Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2004
    Messages:
    12,595
    Location:
    Satsuma, FL
    Distance does make a difference when using the flow from an accumulator to flush a HH head.
    If the lines/hose/tubing is less than 1 inch, it makes a real difference.
    Near 20 years ago, when HH started their big campaign, I installed small accumulators before every head. Those installs are still working less accumulator failures (it happens often).
    Sadly, as last time I raised the issue, HH web site lost focus (again) on supplying manuals and specs.

    The important thing, your working and passengers are happy.
  12. cleanslate

    cleanslate Senior Member

    Joined:
    May 29, 2018
    Messages:
    1,648
    Location:
    Cherry Hill, NJ
    My Ocean Yachts came with a FloJet 115 volt water pump. It was junk.
    Plus no water when generator is turned off..WTF?
    It was my first project on the boat when I bought it.
    I trashed it and installed a variable speed jabsco 12 volt pump.
    Problem solved...that was 6 years ago. Works great , no accumulator tank needed anywhere, no noise and it builds up speed when demand is requested.
    I have two showers, two heads ,four sinks ,icemaker and one cockpit faucet.
    Pressure is great.
    Plus I have water while I am at anchor and don’t need to rely on AC electric.
    Keep it simple.

    Nix your 115 volt pump. I.M.O.
  13. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2005
    Messages:
    14,429
    Location:
    Fort Lauderdale
    In a 50' you should have both AC and DC freshwater pumps IMO. Yes the Jabsco variable speed pumps are pretty nice, none of the oscillating showers.
  14. cleanslate

    cleanslate Senior Member

    Joined:
    May 29, 2018
    Messages:
    1,648
    Location:
    Cherry Hill, NJ
    For the cost and aggravation of parts and impellers for the AC pump you could have two or three back up 12 V pumps ready to go when one fails.

    Takes up way less space in the bilge giving you space for other stuff to fill the void left by not having an AC pump on board! lol
    It also takes AC load off the generator
    Which 9 times out of 10 can go else where ...like the air conditioning and such.
    I took the 15 amp breaker for my electric water pump and turn it into a dedicated plug-in outlet in the galley which is nice for the coffee pot and other electric kitchen gadgets etc.

    Plus the livable space on a Post 50 is actually about 43 feet the rest is cockpit and anchor storage forward.
    Therefore it’s actually a 43 ‘ , plus or minus , footer on the interior usable space that is. It’s not the same as a 50’ motor yacht with an aft cabin .

    But yes you could have both pump set ups if you want .
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2021
  15. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2005
    Messages:
    14,429
    Location:
    Fort Lauderdale
    Nothing is free. You still have an electric draw, instead the generator is running the battery charger which is then charging the batteries that the freshwater pump is using, plus conversion losses (when engines aren't running). All things being equal an AC water pump would be more efficient than a DC water pump as far as electrical usage.
  16. cleanslate

    cleanslate Senior Member

    Joined:
    May 29, 2018
    Messages:
    1,648
    Location:
    Cherry Hill, NJ
    Perhaps . I’ll rule on having space savings and simplicity.
    My old FloJunk took up 8 or 10 AC amps was loud , heavy and took up a 2’x 3’ area with hoses etc.
    My Jabsco sits right on the center line water tank and takes up 16” x 6” space approximately. And is quite .
    Removing the AC water pump which was forward of the port motor , freed up space for easier access to the forward and outside / hull side of motor for inspection and maintenance.
  17. Soulstice

    Soulstice Member

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2013
    Messages:
    149
    Location:
    Portsmouth, Ri
    I am not sure what real space savings you are talking about. On my 50 Post, I have an AC and DC water pump both mounted against a bulkhead in front of the port engine. Taking the AC pump out will maybe save a 1/2 square foot that is not useful for anything else. The AC pump is far more efficient, runs less, provides better pressure, etc. It can be nice to have the 12V for redundancy or for when you are anchored with the generator off but for me I use the AC pump 100% of the time.
  18. cleanslate

    cleanslate Senior Member

    Joined:
    May 29, 2018
    Messages:
    1,648
    Location:
    Cherry Hill, NJ
    Got ya. My old AC water pump was huge and old , mounted on the sole and my engine room space is small and tight I chose to make space. So removing it gave me more room in front of my port motor to help access to the engine raw water pump etc. All of my boats before only had 12 volt DC pumps. It's what I am use to. I use dockside water while onboard at the dock and the 12volt DC while underway.

    All of our boats are unique in many ways and somethings may not work for others. I understand your point plus you have more space in your engine room than I. For me and my boat, I will stick with the DC pump and save the space.
  19. Prospective

    Prospective Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2016
    Messages:
    232
    Location:
    New England
    Had the same issue with my Ocean. AC well pump. Had to run the generator to wash my hands when on a mooring. Drove me nuts. One day the thing finally died. Actually on a fourth of July weekend. Ran to West Marine and bought a Jabsco pump. Ran wire to my DC panel, swapped the pumps and it's a big improvement. Works the same functionally (pressure, noise, etc) but much prefer it on 12V. I don't find them the most reliable, I've had to replace it once in 5 years. But I bought it with the WM warranty so I carry a spare and am prepared to swap it for a new one any time.
  20. Alzira II

    Alzira II Member

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2019
    Messages:
    159
    Location:
    Fort Lauderdale
    Staying on the boat has complications over being on land. The fact that I can have a 120v well pump provide awesome water pressure is one small thing I take great satisfaction in. Especially when the washer and other shower are running and I have been on the bridge for 6-8 hours.