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Sirena 58

Discussion in 'General Yachting Discussion' started by BoatEast, May 10, 2020.

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  1. BoatEast

    BoatEast New Member

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    Looking at buying a 2019 Sirena 58. Pretty new boat so not much history. Anyone have experience with this company or boat. Most interested in engineering quality. Thanks.
  2. jsschieff

    jsschieff Senior Member

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    Not sure about engineering quality, but you may want to Google a "Power and Motoryacht" review of the Sirena 58. I thought the boat's fine, plumb bow of the 58 might result in a wet boat -- and yes, according the the review, "regular packets of spray doused the foredeck" when motoring in a "light swell," and sent occasional spray over the flybridge. The article said the windshield wipers were "kept busy." Not much fun to cruise in a boat that requires foul weather gear when you run it from the fly bridge.

    The article also mentioned the Sirena "wandered" downwind -- something I've noticed in downeast hulls with fine bows and deep forefoots. There were also nits about helm station ergonomics and cramped shower stalls in the boat.

    Nice looking boat, and when run at more moderate speed than the 20 knots of the test, it may not be as wet.
  3. olderboater

    olderboater Senior Member

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    Interesting boat. Either the perfect compromise or it's too slow or too fast. Not a trawler but not speed equal to others in the range.

    First, with it being a new brand, be sure you get a survey. I assume the boat you're looking at is new. If it isn't, then more questions to ask.

    New Turkish brand. I don't know anything about who is behind the company or their reputation in other businesses. They've been building Magellano's, not a surprise as they have similar styles. Who is selling it and who is going to perform warranty service?
  4. BoatEast

    BoatEast New Member

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    Thanks olderboater. I understand it is a boat builder that was building for Azimut as you said then started building their own recently. Owned by a wealthy Turkish family, need to check out what that means. Good point to learn about their other businesses. Will do that.

    It is only 8 months old, but was owned by a person that I am told is having a 64 foot built ... has already traded this to the exclusive US broker in South Fla. The hybrid hull seemed interesting. I was thinking, when combined with gyro, would provide a smoother ride but still provide some speed. Not sure that will happen. Speed is not as critical for me but 10 knots is is too slow. There is warranty left for another year, provided by the dealer in Fla, but am wondering about needing to get parts from Turkey in the next couple of years.

    Trying to figure out if I am nuts to buy a boat that is so new to the market with no track record.
  5. BoatEast

    BoatEast New Member

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    Thanks for the google link . Going to do a sea trial in hopefully not calm water and see how wet it gets. Had not though of that. I am likely to go less than 20 knots anyway unless it is really smooth. Is this kind of hull highly unusual?

    The shower stalls are a little tight, but seem fine. Not awful, but true. More maritime than luxury feel I guess. The foot space in the inside helm is tight. Has a fully opening walk through door exiting the salon on the starboard side directly opposite the inside helm on the port side, Opens up the interior space so that is attractive.
  6. olderboater

    olderboater Senior Member

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    Well, why did the owner decide to get rid of it after 8 months? You indicate they traded it for a larger boat. Why? Because it didn't have the space they needed? Specific problems with the boat? Didn't ride well enough in rough water? Loved it so much they just wanted a bigger version?
  7. DJ Catalyst

    DJ Catalyst New Member

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    So, @BoatEast, did you end up with the Sirena 58?

    I’m intrigued by it, but mostly because I really want the 66 but might not have the scratch to afford it, so the 58 beckons.

    But, the Sunseeker Manhattan 52 also looks pretty swell. Different mission, but checks many of the same (usable space) boxes (maybe better).

    What did you do?
  8. olderboater

    olderboater Senior Member

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    A bit of update on Sirena. They report having sold 60 boats, which is a substantial number from their first in January 2017. They report 60% in the Americas, 40% in Europe and the rest in Turkey. 100%-60%-40%=rest? Now that included many that are in production and not delivered as they have 22 boats in production, so would indicate 38 delivered. They now have a 58', a 64' and am 88'.

    One question I would ask is would be regarding the following statement. They say they have "introduced also a series of design upgrades and technical tweaks to the Sirena 58 and Sirena 64." Sounds good for new builds, but I'd ask what they are and what is it about the prior builds they felt needed to be changed. In fact, you don't have to ask as they list them.

    SIRENA 58 AND 64: A SERIES OF DESIGN UPDATES
    Following up on the commercial success of the Sirena, the brand has introduced also a series of design upgrades and technical tweaks to the Sirena 58 and Sirena 64. Sirena 58 - New master bathroom layout and design - Revised fly bridge helm console and seats - Numerous interior upgrades “We’re always listening to our owners and constantly introducing improvements to our products based on their feedback,” says Constantinos Constantinou, head of operations for Sirena in North America. “Some of these upgrades may seem unimportant, but they are all designed to make the cruising experience safer, more comfortable and ultimately more rewarding.”

    A prime example is the wider staircase with larger treads leading down to the accommodation deck that improves both comfort and safety on the Sirena 58. Another is the fully redesigned master bathroom featuring a rectangular shower stall that is almost 50% more spacious than the previous circular-style shower. In order to keep abreast of current trends in interior design, a new range of interior decor packages are also available. Another enhancement has been introduced on the flybridge with an entirely new helm console and dashboard featuring improved ergonomics and aesthetics, and a pair of ergonomic marine seats by STIDD that replace the previous bench seating.

    Sirena 64 - New stabilization options - Improved galley layout - Second walk-in wardrobe for live-aboard owners In addition to Seakeeper gyro stabilizers with Zipwake interceptors, Sirena is now offering the option of zero-speed Humphree fins and Humphree interceptors. “The advantage is that the Humphree fins and interceptors ‘talk’ to each other in a fully integrated system to control both roll and trim,” says Constantinou. “We introduced the fin integrated system option at the request of Sirena owners who voyage for longer distances at higher cruising speeds.” A revised galley layout is also available with more countertop area and storage space with deeper drawers and closets. The principle improvement here is that a new countertop has been introduced between the galley and the helm station and the space underneath the helm seat is used for extra storage that is accessible from the galley. In addition to the new palette of interior materials and finishes across the Sirena range, the 3-cabin version of the Sirena 64 now comes with a second additional walk-in wardrobe in the full-beam master suite, which already had an abundance of garment storage space. “Based on the request of a specific live-aboard owner, we developed an arrangement with an extra wardrobe where the fourth cabin would be,” says Constantinou. “It’s another example of how we listen to our customers and aim to offer them a higher level of personalization, which is what Sirena is all about at the end of the day.
    A buyer of a used boat would have to look at each of those things and decide if they were critical to them.

    I do find their boats interesting and very functional. I would find comparisons of a Sirena 58 and Sunseeker Manhattan 55 and of a Sirena 64 with a Manhattan 66 and Manhattan 68 to be extremely interesting. My belief is that one would slightly prefer the Sunseekers but they would come at a significantly higher price. Chevrolet's outsell Buicks and outsell Cadillacs.

    One thing I still find disturbing on Sirena is no mention on their site of the company's history, founder to current owner, or if they're the same. I wouldn't buy a boat from any company without knowing it's ownership structure. Now understand Sunseeker shows their entire history on their site but conveniently makes no mention of their current ownership. Just it is readily available information.
  9. Danvilletim

    Danvilletim Senior Member

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    I spent time on the 55 and 64 and also though the layout was very smart. The 88 Sirena is even. Ore amazing.
  10. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

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    I'm not familiar with this boat, but a few things bother me.
    1) Regarding the specific boat referenced by the OP: What possesses someone to spend this kind of money on a boat and then look to sell it 8 months later? That would be a huge red flag to me.
    2) Regarding the wet ride (" I thought the boat's fine, plumb bow of the 58 might result in a wet boat -- and yes, according the the review, "regular packets of spray doused the foredeck" when motoring in a "light swell," and sent occasional spray over the flybridge. The article said the windshield wipers were "kept busy." Not much fun to cruise in a boat that requires foul weather gear when you run it from the fly bridge."): What must this be like coming in an inlet with 10' rolling in from behind and an outflowing current? The plum box and ax bow designs are a new (recycled) style that seems to be catching on, but in my estimation is yet to be proven on smaller yachts. I've had enough flared bows dip through the waves, but at least they work to raise themselves over. To me, at least on smaller yachts, these are calm water boats.
    3) Regarding the company's lack of history and reach: If you're buying a new yacht you're dependent on your warranty. Who represents them in the U.S.? Will claims be ignored or delayed as has happened with other new brands that have hit our shores?
  11. DJ Catalyst

    DJ Catalyst New Member

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    Wow. The 88 has an incredible design. The asymmetric arrangement - with the bow leading to the Fly - is brilliant. As is the main-floor master. I mean, look - owners of boats this size are predominantly "of a certain age", and single-floor living is a win.

    If only....
  12. Cruz

    Cruz Member

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    I am familiar with someone who posts regularly about their 2020 Sirena 58 on a different platform. Message me if you'd like that info.
  13. BRyachts

    BRyachts Member

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    10 Guests and a VERY high maintenance (Glass and mirror) interior, and how many stewardesses?
    All exterior glass that needs to be washed and chamoised every morning, rain shower, and every time the boat moves, hanging from a bosuns chair from the railings, and how many deckhands?
    A soak pool on the fore deck, and a large hot tub on flybridge? How much water does boat hold?? And an OFFCENTER hot tub that WILL cause the boat to list every time it is filled?? Are gens and watermakers sized to make and heat that much water that fast??
    The rinky dink little galley is up, with cooking for 10 guests plus crew? And the only access is thru the guest dining room, and just how does all this crew get their food? Pantry and dry goods storage??
    An open bunk in the pilothouse?? Really??? You gotta be kidding!!

    This is a boat designed to be sold to owners who don't have a clue what goes on behind the scenes.
  14. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

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    That sounds like a promotion. Do you have any connection to this company?
  15. mapism

    mapism Senior Member

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    Well, beauty is in the eye of the beholder, obviously.
    That strikes me as an awfully impractical and totally unacceptable layout, but each to their own.
    Overall, I couldn't agree more with the summary in the last line of BRyachts post.
  16. olderboater

    olderboater Senior Member

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    Ok, I'll weigh in on the 88. Looked at from afar, a great design. Looked at in detail, one of the worst designs I've ever seen. It falls apart in so many ways.

    As to calling the galley Rinky-Dink, I thought what a harsh statement, until I looked. That's a small galley for a 45' boat. That's a galley for people who never eat aboard.

    When you cram 5 staterooms into 88', the reasoning is generally for charter. But then charter requires extra crew and galley.

    I look at sizing and start to wonder if it's built for small people. Must be based on crew area and based on size of pilothouse and galley and other areas. It's like asking how much we can fit into this size.

    I compare to our 85' Pacific Mariner and turn away confused. The Sirena is 2' more beam, 1' more draft, 43,000 more pounds weight and yet seems nowhere nearly as spacious. Plus I don't buy the 25 knots performance at all with the added draft, weight and beam. I also don't buy the 2100 nm at 9 knots or 3100 nm with optional tank. I can believe it in theory, but that requires running basically at idle and difficult to achieve plus on a crossing will be very impacted by wind and waves and the calm water theory is overboard. Yes, at 8 knots, if you take our numbers we hit 2340 nm, but that's at 750 RPM and at 1000 RPM we hit 10 knots and only 1661 nm. I would put our real world maximum range around 1300-1400 nm.

    Our galley is more than 50% larger. Our lower helm vs. the pilothouse has double the space. Our cabins are larger as only four but all on lower level. Main deck masters are nice but not on boats this size unless you're willing to sacrifice in other areas. Our salon is much more spacious. Our flybridge has more space.

    That brings me to the design that has two helms within nearly inches of each other. Step from their flybridge helm into the pilothouse. One seat in the pilothouse?

    And the designer must hate crew. Our crew area is comfortable for three ir four with 2 heads (vs. 1), full size captains bed (vs. small), shower vs wet head. Even with ours we generally let crew use one of the cabins. However, for 10 people you'd definitely need more crew, especially if chartering. We chartered a boat like hours before buying. Always had a crew of four with maximum of 6 or 8 guests.

    The soak pool plus hot tub was clearly excess showing off and a bit much. As to the off center hot but causing the entire boat to list, not on a boat that size. Ours is off center and no issue.

    So you can't service 10 with the crew or galley. I don't think you could properly service 8. That galley is for a maximum of 6 people. A Sunseeker Manhattan 52 has an equivalent galley.

    Sorry as I like the designs of the smaller models, but they just tried to pack more into an 88 than fits and came out with a mess.
  17. Tortoise

    Tortoise Guest

    Not to mention the “safety railings” that get lower and lower as one moves forward to be bow. But if you could keep it indoors in a glass boathouse, it would make a really nice sculpture.
  18. DJ Catalyst

    DJ Catalyst New Member

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    @NYCAP123 It is sad that we live in an era where mere fandom is seen as paid promotion. I am not what you assert. Here is my LinkedIn profile: [mod deleted] - I hope my resume helps you believe I’m not a shill.

    I hope the world starts to return to normal someday.
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 12, 2020
  19. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

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    Don't need your resume, just your statement. Your exuberance made me wonder. We've had more than a few self-promoters come on here. Not that there's anything wrong with that as long as they disclose. P.S. I recommend you delete your LinkenIn link before the bots grab it and spam you. Be well.
  20. mapism

    mapism Senior Member

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    Don't hold your breath.
    In fact, in your boots, I'd follow NYCAP latest suggestion...;)