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Another boat fire in Fort Lauderdale

Discussion in 'General Yachting Discussion' started by Norseman, Oct 15, 2020.

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  1. Capt Ralph

    Capt Ralph Senior Member

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    Oh, I remember my first cabin boat. 28' Chris with twin 289s (backwards).
    The fuel sniffer that came with the boat did not work. Seems you had to replace the thimble sized sensor from time to time.
    That was quickly replace and seemed to work properly per the lil lights.

    One day while heading out the Pottsburg Creek, that lil sniffer sounder a horrible noise. Once I recognized what that meant I just turned the engines off and dove into the ER.
    Yep, I could smell the gas bit unable to find the source. With the blowers on I still could not get the fumes out of the bilge.

    Young and panicked (and drifting) I felt a lil shiver down my back.
    I remember the USPS classes showing how just some fuel vapor could raise a cinder block off the floor.

    After a short and embarrassing tow back to my dock, I found the gas leak. The bottom of the port tank had rusted, in an out of sight location.

    I always had a sniffer on the rest of my gas boats after that. SOP
  2. bayoubud

    bayoubud Senior Member

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    Good question. PWC's are no different, engine and fuel leaks are in a enclosed bilge. Checking fuel hose connections along with with the engine before taking off would be smart.
    jkotler likes this.
  3. olderboater

    olderboater Senior Member

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    Let's not run wild on assuming what caused this. Also, let's recognize that there are far more recreational gas boats than diesel and fires are still rare. However, there are precautions and safety measures. We have Williams jets and no reservations about them. In the case of this incident, there were so many red flags of potential problems and all were ignored. Just don't ignore any warnings such as the smell of gas, trouble starting, electrical problems, sparks. Also, have extinguishers handy but also practice evacuation. Have good procedures for fueling, have them for the use of propane as well.
  4. olderboater

    olderboater Senior Member

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    As to PWC's, there was an episode of Lone Star Law with a PWC explosion. All the warning signs were there and ignored. Fortunately, the rider escaped with minor injuries.
  5. amgscrap

    amgscrap Member

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    What procedures do you follow before you start your Williams. When we take a trip we may stop and start our Williams more then a dozen times a day. As a habit I keep my blower on before I start my engine and even when it running.
  6. Capt Ralph

    Capt Ralph Senior Member

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    I would assume you do look into the engine area before you start your day. Check for water and component security? Drain plug? Spilled liquids like gas?
    I am not familiar with the Williams blower out flow. During the day, is there anywhere you could easily bend over to get a wif of vented air?
    As I tried to explain above, sometimes during a leak, you can not get all the fumes out with blowers. A wif from the blower out may help in detection.

    Another thought to answer your question, I have to ask;
    How safe do you want to operate? How much effort is to much effort to keep you and others safe and alive?
  7. mapism

    mapism Senior Member

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    Not a good idea.
    Blowers extract air from the engine compartment, so by keeping them on while the engine is running you are "stealing" air to the engine, sort of.
    Running the blower for a while not only before turning the engine on, but also after turning it off would be a better habit, imho.
  8. amgscrap

    amgscrap Member

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    always want to operate safe. When we launch tender from our boat garage we always lift cover to engine and look around and smell around. I turn on blowers for a few minutes then start engine I then close cover to engine but leave blowers running. Williams suggests leaving blower on to help turbo.

    once tender is launched we don’t check engine again that day unless something wrong but do make sure blowers running before start. Obviously if smell gas would not restart engine.
  9. olderboater

    olderboater Senior Member

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    Very similar to what we do and we do the same, except for blowers, with our diesel tenders.

    We also get everyone off the tender for fueling and we do the fueling ourselves so we're sure no spillage or overflow. One thing we learned years ago on the lake is how much difference in how various boats fuel and knowing the speeds they'll take and how they react is important. One will take it fast, one won't. One will warn you, one won't.
  10. Pascal

    Pascal Senior Member

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    On the Williams Jet I would add a fume detector. On a PWC, I don’t know if the battery can even support a detector. PWC have exploded in past.
  11. amgscrap

    amgscrap Member

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    thanks. We can only take a Williams 320 in our garage. Wish it came in a diesel for a variety of reasons
  12. Capt Ralph

    Capt Ralph Senior Member

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    Many here have always agreed with me regarding gas boats. They must be treated properly, maintained correctly and respected well.
    It is up to the operator as to how safely they want to operate.

    Hind sight does suck. Hard to figure out what really happens when boats go POOF.
    I do believe that if anybody would have kept a nose or detector active, We may not not have these sad videos and less POOFS..

    I'm not sure if many here agree with me when I state; it is worse than stupid, it may be criminal when these things happen and people are hurt.
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2020
  13. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

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    I don't agree with this. As you push air out of the engine space it's replaced by fresh air. Nature abhors a vacuum. But many boats barely get enough air though the vents to keep the motors going. Blowers help. I like to keep blowers on continually to force the exchange of air as well as for safety unless the noise is bothersome. No telling when a fuel leak will occur.
  14. Capt Ralph

    Capt Ralph Senior Member

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    Many here also know we ran our own marine management and maintenance shop.
    Josie still does for a small, elite fleet.
    When we started full time, we offered to work on everything.
    After opening the decks or bonnet on a few gas boats and finding fancy auto parts (not ignition proof) parts installed and talking with these owners in the Jax FL (south GA) area, We altered our work on everything plan; we then just refused to work on gas boats.

    Buba was determined to kill him self and take others with him after he put cheap auto parts on his souped up SBC.

    We also realized this was a small part of owners giving the rest of the gas boat owners a bad name.
    So what.

    We can not tell the difference between a good gas boat or a bad gas boat. We don't know the owners and it takes to much time to go thru a boat to check so much out.
    We just flat refused to work on gas boats.
    For over 15 years we operated that way with no looking back.

    Because Jacksonville FL is not a big boating center like Miami or Liquordale, You kids do not get the news of near weekly gas boat fires up here.
    Sadly, our local news sux and many events are not reported at all.
    But, we still live on the river, We hear it all,, POOF..
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2020
  15. mapism

    mapism Senior Member

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    Well, of course as air is extracted from the engine compartment it's replaced by fresh air coming in from the intakes.
    This does NOT mean that "blowers help" though, because by sucking air they "compete" with the engine, that is also sucking air that must come in from the same intakes.
    I'm strictly referring to a proper blowers setup in a gas boat, mind. Which means that the blower(s) MUST only work in extraction, and sucking air from the bilge bottom, where gas vapours tend to cumulate, being heavier than air.

    Diesel boats (which I think is what you have in mind when you mention your habit of keeping blowers on at all time) are a different kettle of fish.
    In some of them, blowers are working in pairs (blowing in+out).
    Or when they only blow out, it's usually from the top of the e/room, which is hotter.
    But I've also seen boats where they only blow air inside the e/room - the assumption being that air circulates anyway, going out from the intakes.
    Now, I don't know how your boat is configured, but it's only with the latter setup that you could theoretically argue that "blowers help" while the engines are running.
    A correctly designed diesel e/room with large enough intakes should not rely on them anyway, but they surely don't hurt.
    It's in a gas boat that such setup would be plain wrong - even dangerous, in fact.
  16. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

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    If a gas boat starves for air it'll let you know pretty fast and I've never had it happen except on go-fasts at idle speed, but that's because not enough air is being pushed in at idle. Many need their lids lifted at idle for that reason and heat, and doesn't matter if blowers are on or not. However gas can leak from carbs, fuel lines, filters, tanks, filler necks etc. at any time and sparks be being generated constantly as the motors are run. Sorry, but I'll leave my blowers on. I have no fear of gas boats, but I'm also very cautious. If a boat conks out for lack of oxygen I'll deal with that then, but it's not happened in the past 60+ years, however not a year goes buy that I don't hear of a boat going boom.
  17. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

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    DK how it is in Florida, but up here it's hard for a marina to keep a diesel mechanic. They're either working for themselves or in the trucking industry where they can work all year. No trouble finding marine gas mechanics cause they charge less and there's tons of boats to keep them busy. Plus gas mechanics can float between the marine and automotive fields. So a marina can lay them off in December and bring them back in April for a few bucks more than a car dealer will pay them. A diesel mechanic earns top dollar and if you lay him off for the winter he's gone for good, but how does a marina pay his rate during the slow season.
  18. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    Here in Florida, you have the engine dealer mechanics........trained by the dealership.....I'd say 90% of them like working for the dealer and working Monday-Friday 8-4pm and having weekends to themselves. Then the other 10% get ambitious and go out on their own. There are plenty of independent diesel guys around, some of them started independent......most yards here don't employ diesel mechanics and those are brought in from the engine dealer, OR the gas mechanic knows enough to do the basics on diesels and then calls out for anything below the valve covers......I hate gas inboards.....so many components to go bad, an engine never designed for the use it sees, seems like they always have some issue.
  19. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

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    Trouble is diesels are expensive to buy and to maintain. On boats under 36' they drive the cost of a boat above the price point people are willing to pay. Also, when you're talking people newer to boating, everyone is familiar with gas motors. They have them in their cars. Diesels intimidate them. Makes them think of long haul trucks. Also the gas motors push the light boats faster. Then there's diesel smoke. Not bad when it's 20' or 50' behind you, but when it's 5' behind you it's a little annoying for the wife and kiddies.
    Btw, up here (and I suspect a lot of other places) we have very few water access dealerships. In fact I can think of only 3. One is entirely gas and a 2nd one is probably 70%gas. That means that anyone having a diesel worked on starts with a bill for travel time.
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2020
  20. Pascal

    Pascal Senior Member

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    I have limited experience up north but it seems to be that up there most marinas are full service. You dock your boat and get it maintained by the same people. Kind of a monopoly.

    down here most boats are docks at places that do not offer service so you are free to choose whoever you want. In some yard you may be charged a fee for using outside labor but that’s the exception