Click for Delta Click for Burger Click for Westport Click for JetForums Click for Westport

Itama fortyfive : finally all problems fixed

Discussion in 'Technical Discussion' started by muscled430, Oct 2, 2017.

You need to be registered and signed in to view this content.
  1. muscled430

    muscled430 New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2016
    Messages:
    31
    Location:
    Italy
    Dear all, as owner of an Itama fortyfive made in 2013 I faced tons of problems that finally, after 2 years of fighting, I solved.
    Here a list that I hope can help Itama owners or who would like to buy an Itama.
    1) gangway : the retractable gangway never worked properly, but the solution, knowing it, is quite easy : buy from Opac a 5 meters extension for the gangway sensor and place it as closer to the stern as you can. Basically the sensor is originally too much inside and the remote control does not catch the signal.
    2) trim tabs : to fit the tender lift, the yard reduced the size of the trim tabs, the effect was to make the trim tabs useless : there is only a solution which is to replace the trim tabs with interceptors (either zipwake or humphree)
    3) piping : faucets and metal piping are not in Aisi 316L but in galvanized iron, make sure you change them asap if you do not want to face breaks.
    4) water leackage in the engine room : few causes
    a) the sensor of the ladder out is a cable that passes under the waterline and lives in the water, I suggest removing it and closing the hole
    b) the pump of the seawater used to wash the anchor chain has a plastic filter, with the pressure the plastic filter warps and let tons of water in. You should change the filter with a filter of better quality.
    c) the holes of the tender lift, if not properly sealed will let water in (and usually they are not properly sealed)
    d) the mechanical seals could be another problem, usually Ferretti Groups who produces Itama does not use the best product.....I suggest to change them with the american ones.
    5) noise from the engine room : the engine room is usually not properly insulated, I had to insulate it properly, including exhaust pipes
    5) instruments : I upgraded everything (Simrad NSS EVA 2 12 inches as plotter with structure scan, and vessel views 7 inches, adding an electronic sonde for the level of gasoline).
    6) sundeck cushions : Ferretti makes them in foam, with the result that they get wet, they never dry and you will end with cushions heavy and full of mold. On top the covers of the cushions are made in very poor quality : I changed everything using a material called breathair, super light and which does not remain wet, changing as well the covers.
    7) flush hatches : poor quality, they leaks (they are in plexiglass, with the heat and the cold plexiglass moves and detaches from the profile : the solution is to change hatches with hand made ones in crystal.
    8) battery chargers : the generator does not have his own battery charger, I added it, the mastervolt used by Ferretti is not big enough (50w), so I added a Dolphin 100w.
    9) bow thruster and stern thruster : I changed the original bow thruster with a new sidepower and I added a stern thruster
    10) the bimini is made with a poor quality fabric that leaks after few months, I replaced with Sunbrella.
    11) gelcoat blue get awful after a couple of years, I painted the boat with Dupont (same color as original)
    Beside the fixing, I added
    1) a bow and a stern winch, that helps me in docking
    2) a watermaker Idromar
    3) a seakeeper 5 which is the best thing I ever done, life on board is always great even at anchor in choppy sea.
    So..........why buying an Itama if the boat has so many issues?
    The hull is solid and fantastic (deep V 22° at stern) , you can cruise 23/24 knots in 6 feets waves without slamming
    The line of the boat will be forever beautiful
    It is a perfect size boat : does not need a sailor man, it is easy to handle, does not burn too much gasoline, good for a day in the sea as for few days cruising.
    Last....I did not know I was going to face so many issues when I bought the boat :)
  2. Fiammetta42

    Fiammetta42 Member

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2017
    Messages:
    130
    Location:
    Liguria Italy ( boat )
    Mines a 42 from 2001 with MAN 13 L 700hp,s
    It's a pre Bulgari / Ferretti modal when the " old man " Mario Amarti was in the yard .

    They say the Ferretti post 2005 sale have issues .

    Yours has 450s or 480's and is 13 tons .vaccum formed lighter hull
    Mine is 17.7 tons dry - hand layered hull .
    I have had mine 3 years 250 hrs the only thing I have replaced is the water pump which packed up .

    I did fit a modern all singing / dancing dolphin 100 W charger as things have moved on in bat husbandry in 15 years .
    Mines 23 degree deadrise and sure it flys in all seas our cruise is 27- knots eco @ 1780 rpm 180 L / r or 1930 rpm 32 knots @ 220 L / r .
    Suits us in the Med it had the original Gel coat too .

    I,am trying to keep it all original as possible as they only made 20 -42 ,s and 10 -- 48 ,s .
    The 48 was the Bulgari (2004 ) run out modal before Ferretti 2005 took over .
    The fit n finish ,components was such they made a loss .
    Ferretti were never going to loose € or $ so corners were cut .
    That's what you have experienced they made over a 100 45 ,s inc yours .

    Yours is V drive mines got the engine room in the middle cuts the boat in two accommodation wise , but straight shafts ,proper centre of gravity ,and balance needing little if any trim .
    Shaft angle less than 10 degrees .
    Amati would turn in his grave shoving the engines back and knackering the running attitude .
    Just last month @ Cannes they announced the 45S. Upgraded power to Cummings 550 -- hopefully sorted most of the issues you describe .

    Any one reading this if you want Itama go for a pre Ferretti -2005
    Last edited: Oct 2, 2017
  3. T.K.

    T.K. Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2007
    Messages:
    1,013
    Location:
    Cairo - Egypt
    Welldone....good job. All the upgrades performed make a lot of sense.

    I honestly have never heard of galvanised steel fresh water pipes being fitted in a modern vessel. Usually the fresh water piping is polypropylene or NSF PVC rated for potable water. In expensive yacht builds and superyachts, the piping would be in stainless steel. Copper pipe can also be used.
  4. muscled430

    muscled430 New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2016
    Messages:
    31
    Location:
    Italy
    Unfortunately this is what you get when you buy something made by Ferretti :)
  5. Capt Ralph

    Capt Ralph Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2004
    Messages:
    12,647
    Location:
    Satsuma, FL
    We have seen their work before.
    FEBs , (Ferretti Era Bertrams) require extra attention in surveys if sought after at all.
    I personally think they killed The Legend.

    Glad to hear you luv your ship. It does seem your passion is keeping you happy.
    Safe & fun times,
    rc
  6. muscled430

    muscled430 New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2016
    Messages:
    31
    Location:
    Italy
    The 45 S is exactly the same boat as the 45, with bigger engines (550 hp instead of 480), more or less same speed (34 instead of 33 maximum), much less range (Itama says 220 for the 45 and 190 for the 45 S, but this is not real......the 45 has the same tank of the 45s, which is 1160 liters, but when you are at 1050 liters the story is over since the engines will say insufficient gasoline pressure.....the 45 burns around 4.8-5 liters per miles at 28 knots cruising speed, and no one boat goes fully straight....so if in theory you might be able to run for 210/220, in practice 200 nm is the maximum you can do with flat sea , but going 200 nm without refilling will not be very smart.....at the end you can go 150 nm to stay on the safe side. The 45s with 550 cummins burns more than 6 liters per miles at cruising speed, which means 175 nm in theory, realistically 165 before you run out of gasoline, which brings the safe line at.....125 nm....a way too less for a boat). Beside that, I checked the boat : no one of the problems has been fixed, Itama sells 1/2 boats per type every year, the molds are old and in bad shape, there is no interest for the Chinese Group who owns Ferretti to invest in Itama. The only reason why Cummins 550 where installed is because Cummins is not producing any longer the 480 5.9 QSB. But the 550 is heavier and bigger, so even less room in the already small engine room.
    The only modification made at 45S is the deck, to fit the engines.
    The luck of Ferretti is that 99% of people who buy a 45 use the boat only to go few miles out of the port to swim, and using the boat like that, before you realize the problems of the boat the warranty has already expired. With my boat I went from Athens to Lavagna (near Genova), from Lavagna to Saint Florent (Corsica), from Lavagna to Rome, from Rome to Ponza, from Ponza to Sardinia.........In one word, I use the boat for her main purpose : cruising :)
    So ......if you buy a 45 S and use her for cruising you will face the same problems I faced (and I forgot to mention that in case of rough sea, if you do not install bulkheads behind the air intakes of the engines, your engine room will get full of salty water ( I made carbon fiber bulkheads to avoid the problem even if i do not know if bulkhead is the correct english word....but I guess you understood).
    Conclusion : Magnum and Itama are probably the very last boats with great sea handling if we exclude the big fishing machines as Viking), unfortunately both produce very few boats and, beside the great hull, the quality is very poor. And since most of the boat owners want a boat that in 40 feets gives the space of a villa with small consumption, and do not care of sea handling at all, the age of the great and real boats is almost over :-(((
  7. muscled430

    muscled430 New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2016
    Messages:
    31
    Location:
    Italy
    Ferretti already killed 2 legends : Bertram and Itama, and it is killing Riva as well. The only reason they are selling Riva well is because of the name, but now there is only the name, quality is about a Bavaria
  8. muscled430

    muscled430 New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2016
    Messages:
    31
    Location:
    Italy
    And yes, after fighting 2 years to solve all the issues I can proudly say my Itama 45 is probably the only one on the market properly working : season 2017 ended basically with zero problems after over 1500 nm around the med (the only problems were : fuse of air cond gone, fuse of the stern thruster gone both fixed in 5 minutes, a zipwake replaced, which took half day, and the anchor breaker gone- Ferretti installed a 500w breaker on a 1500w winch-also fixed in few hours, but these small inconvenients are quite normal in a boat)
  9. olderboater

    olderboater Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2013
    Messages:
    7,132
    Location:
    Fort Lauderdale
    We have two Riva's, owned by Ferretti but built in their own facility, and have experienced none of the issues described. The boats were surveyed at delivery which is something I advise everyone even on new boats. The only issue was corrected that afternoon prior to acceptance. As to finish, they look like the day they were new. However, they've spent the vast majority of their time under cover and protected.

    I've never been on an Itama and the OP is the first owner of one I've ever known. I wonder how much was lost when they moved into a Ferretti manufacturing facility. In some ways they seem like the Anti-Riva, not meaning that as good or bad, just that Itama seems like a decidedly understated boat vs. Riva a bit over the top. That should lead to lower maintenance on the boat itself without the metallic paints and mahogany and such.

    To the OP, didn't the things you mention show up in the Survey when you bought it? I'm assuming you bought it used?
  10. muscled430

    muscled430 New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2016
    Messages:
    31
    Location:
    Italy
    I have nothing against Riva....the design is fantastic, what I said is that the quality is no more the same since Ferretti was sold (they were still excellent when Norberto Ferretti was leading Ferretti).
    About my boat, she was a demo with few hours on engines under Ferretti warranty. And none(or almost none) of the problems I faced could have been find by a surveyor......
  11. olderboater

    olderboater Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2013
    Messages:
    7,132
    Location:
    Fort Lauderdale
    The quality of Riva has not changed since Ferretti was sold. Don't speak of that which you don't know. I haven't attempted to speak of Itama quality.

    You say:
    The luck of Ferretti is that 99% of people who buy a 45 use the boat only to go few miles out of the port to swim, and using the boat like that, before you realize the problems of the boat the warranty has already expired. With my boat I went from Athens to Lavagna (near Genova), from Lavagna to Saint Florent (Corsica), from Lavagna to Rome, from Rome to Ponza, from Ponza to Sardinia.........In one word, I use the boat for her main purpose : cruising
    While the boat still shouldn't have the issues you've described, when you say you use the boat for her main purpose, cruising, you're just wrong. If 99% of the people are using it just to go a few miles, that is it's main purpose and that's the use it's designed for at this point. At 45', with limited range, it's not designed to be a cruising boat. You are very much an outlier as buyers of that boat go. It's great how you use the boat, but as you said, you are not the normal buyer of that boat. Of the 130 sold since 2005, you may be the only one or one of only two using it as you do, based on the percentages you gave.

    One of our Rivas is a Rivarama 44'. It's a day boat and an overnight boat, but definitely not designed for long offshore cruises. Our longest trip in it has been 3 days. Now, our 63' Riva is much different and even though it's range is less than we wish, it's an excellent boat for a trip to the Bahamas or even an extended trip up the Coast.

    This is in no way dismissing your issues or saying they're acceptable, just about the customer the boat is aimed to.
  12. Fiammetta42

    Fiammetta42 Member

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2017
    Messages:
    130
    Location:
    Liguria Italy ( boat )
    We have 1800 L tankage
    Arranged in 2x700 and an additional 400 extended range ,all connected .
    180 L/h is 27 knots eco cruise ,
    Say 10 hours 300 miles less reserve -your guess 50 -- so 250 m range .
    We can get to Corsica and back on one tank ,3 hrs either way .
    Very happy with the build and quality fittings .
    Ours is 14.5 M overall ( 13.2 hull ) and 4.16 Beam .
    https://imgur.com/gallery/rc1nu
  13. Liam

    Liam Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2010
    Messages:
    634
    Location:
    Malta
    Ferretti is still a prime builder with its name, same with Custom Line and CRN, and Pershing.
    Mochi build in Forli have also been of good quality with an incredible ride thanks to a Brunello Acampora hull design.
    As a broker I sold many Pershings and rarely they do have any problems.
    With Riva they had a few mishaps with the Rivarama models, and early Rivale units. But the quality is good for the rest of the units.
    Off course they are not bullet proof as the old Riva Superamerica etc. But are still a higher quality to other EU builders and the rich finishings are there.
    The chief builder of Riva (responsible for GRP models more then Carlo) left the company in 1991 and formed Sarnico, and took the best ten people with him or so the story goes.
    So that was not to blame to FG. Rumour is that he was still consulting Riva for pre-construction of new units.

    Ferretti Group was mistaken with Bertram because they tried to manage it from Italy, with the workforce and management doing little to care of the yachts it was building.
    Then the bean counters came in around 2006 when the Bubble was growing up more then the big bang and it turned more sour.

    With Itama the situation is very different to Bertram. As Ferretti Group just bought the name and the concept which Mario Amati build, that is all.
    With Itama they moved production from the Tiber river to the old Pershing factory in Fano first, then to Naples at the Aprea Mare factory, and now (since five years) at the Forli Ferretti factory.
    The old molds where not part of the purchase, as was not the old Tiber river facility Amati had. Ferretti Group also did not use any of the workforce and the dealers of Itama (most of them) where eventually changed.
    The management and old workforce of Itama a year later in 2006 opened up a new company XL Marine.
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2017
  14. Liam

    Liam Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2010
    Messages:
    634
    Location:
    Malta
    Agree on most you say in your post, but the above.
    Norberto was a cruiser himself. He used to build boats for cruising going to Sardinia, Corsica, Greece, Croatia, Turkey etc himself with Zia Canaia (Ferretti 52 Altura S, Ferretti 55 (165), then the first unit of the 68). His boats use also to carry about 30% more fuel then most of the competition at around the nineties period, and used to have some great details as dual water pumps, dual fuel separation system, engine drainage from inside the boat, fuel filtering within the tank etc etc
    I know of a true story around early nineties when an owner had a problem with a 44 and Norberto went to the today Croatia himself to fix it in less then 24 hours.
    This is before the finance got hold of the Group especially the ones after 2006, with to much bean counters managing the business.
    Mario Amati was like Norberto but he always kept a low profile. Amati wanted to stay small building ten to twenty boats a year, building the most simple gorgeous sport yacht commuter ever made.
  15. Fiammetta42

    Fiammetta42 Member

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2017
    Messages:
    130
    Location:
    Liguria Italy ( boat )
    Was your boat at the Genoa show ?
    There was a Itama 45 with seakeeper used as a demo boat .
    The geny was v quiet for a 45
    Just curious ?
    Where did you get the hull painted and with what -Awalgrip ?

    https://imgur.com/gallery/irhRS
  16. muscled430

    muscled430 New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2016
    Messages:
    31
    Location:
    Italy
    Yes, my boat was at Genoa show as demo for seakeeper. Hull is painted with DuPont, in case of small scratches much easier to fix than Awalgrip.
    Boat was painted at Netter yard, in Fiumicino (Rome).
    Geny is a Kohler 7 kw, quiet itself, but even quieter than usual because I re made the insulation of the engine room :)
  17. muscled430

    muscled430 New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2016
    Messages:
    31
    Location:
    Italy
    Sorry but I fully disagree.
    I have tons of friends with Riva, also big ones, and they have tons of issues.
    And why you say Rivarama is not designed for an offshore cruise? Remember : Rivarama has an omologation in A class, exactly as Rivale, Virtus, and the others......the only difference is that on a Rivarama you have less space inside, but this is a question of comfort on board.
    About quality......Riva made in Sarnico till 2008 had great quality, Riva made in Sarnico now have a decent quality (on Rivamare I have some doubts, I was on the boat of a friend....quality is not that great), but bigger Riva made in La Spezia......oh Carlo Riva seeing one of those boats will turn in his grave!
    And about the purpose of a boat : well not everyone is billionaire, and boats in my opinion must be made for cruising and not just for a quick swim out of the port. Add that the Itama fortyfive is in A class, which in theory means waves till 24 feet. I would like to remind you that in the 70th most of the rich people were cruising with 12 meters boats, only in our times most people think that a boat should be a huge villa on the sea. I guess the mentality changed, but a boat is still a boat, which must be able to cruise long without problems.
  18. muscled430

    muscled430 New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2016
    Messages:
    31
    Location:
    Italy
    If I understand well you have an Itama 42......which is much bigger than a fortyfive : the fortyfive is nothing else than the forty with longer swimming platform. The size of the boat is slightly more than 12 meters (12,48 meters/40 feet 11 inch) so 11 inches more than a forty. That is why it is lighter than the 42 (full loaded is about 14.7 tons), and being the 42 bigger there is more room for the tanks.....in any case I agree with you that 1130 liters of gasoline is not enough , but there is no way to add a tank (well it is possible but max you can add is about 150 liters, will not change too much.....)
    I wish Norberto was still the CEO of Ferretti, he was a real gentleman.
    I had an issue in the past with a boat of the Group, the boat was out of warranty since more than 1 year, Norberto gave instructions to fix the problem for free (and it was an expensive problem!!!).
    Norberto himself was checking each Riva before delivering!
    I tell you a small story : I asked the man responsible for Itama quality how could have been possible to make so many "mistake " on a boat.....the answery was : if I had to check every single boat, I had to spend my full day in the yard and never at office......but is not what a responsible for quality should do? spending his day checking how the boats are built?
  19. Fiammetta42

    Fiammetta42 Member

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2017
    Messages:
    130
    Location:
    Liguria Italy ( boat )
    What material have you used in the ER for extra soundproofing ?
    What ever it is it's good. Very good as if it's wasn,t for the bubbles I would not have known the geny was on
    I agree with you re cruising etc. You should be able to eat sea miles in these .
    The Rivarama had v poor ER access last time I looked a bit of s put off and the single open plan cabin ,lack of storage ,so where do you put a tender on one ?..
  20. olderboater

    olderboater Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2013
    Messages:
    7,132
    Location:
    Fort Lauderdale
    You have tons of friends. I have two of the boats myself and manage two others, so direct experience with ownership and care of 4, all built in 2012-2015. I fully understand the Rivarama is A class. I also think neither it nor the Itama 45. However, their primary purpose and use is not long range cruising. They're small open boats and they have very limited range in the 200 nm area. That means running at cruise of around 35 knots, you have only about 5 hours of range. That's not a long range cruising boat by design. Yes, they handle waves and winds very well for a small planing hull. I love the ride. But I'm not about to go try to cruise for weeks with four passengers in one. On a long summer day you have to stop and fuel twice on your way. Also, to me, where I live, if you can't make it to the Caribbean, you're not a long range cruising boat, and you can't in either a Rivarama or an Itama 45. There's more to being a long range cruising boat than just being able to handle the waves.

    Perhaps your definition of long range cruising is very different than mine, but if you can't comfortably cruise for weeks and thousands of miles, that's not long range to me. A 42' Kadey Krogen is designed for long range. A 44' Riva is designed and marketed as a day and weekend boat with occasional weeks for two. Where are you going to store the food and supplies for a month long cruise? And are you really going to prepare meals for days in their galley?

    "In our times, most people think"? Oh, did you take a survey? How do you know what most people think. While I respect your right to your opinion, I also have ownership experience with Riva you don't. We've cruised over 80,000 nm in the last five years in various boats, so have a reasonable amount of knowledge of long range cruising and boat quality. Every owner has a different experience, but ours with Riva is very good while at the same time I'm not going to go from FL to Seattle in one.