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How well do older Aluminum hull yachts fair?

Discussion in 'General Yachting Discussion' started by Reginald, Dec 6, 2015.

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  1. Reginald

    Reginald New Member

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    Reginald Buckingham III of Bainbridge Island, WA
    How well do older Aluminum hull yachts fair?
    I'm looking at a few 1990-ish Broward 100 footers available to pick from in FL.
  2. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    Good, and can last 50 years or more without replacing any plates or anything, if zincs are kept on them and proper bottom paint and such. Even if there are issues it might only relate to a few small areas generally. We ran 2 old crew boats through 8-10' seas or got stuck in them I shall say, for 350 NM's one was a 1968 and the other a 1972 a year ago and they were no worse for the wear.

    The biggest deals with Aluminum are to never drop any other metals in the bilge (especially copper), and you're going to get paint bubbles above the waterline usually 5 years after a paint job they start popping up that need to be fixed......but if the boat was faired, primed, painted, and everything bedded properly, you might not get paint bubbles.

    Burger's are a better build than Browards. 8 or 9 out of 10 of that vintage Browards down here in South Florida are VERY needy.
  3. Capt Ralph

    Capt Ralph Senior Member

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    I've spent lots of time on a Striker and a Roamer. I felt the plates and frames were getting the worst abuse in the bilges. Behind and under every piece of deck hardware. Any water leak from hatches and windows under interior trim and panels. The Roamers external exhaust system required an Audio every two years and bad plates were always found.
    The integral aft fuel tank on the Striker failed rite on the center seam but I believe that was a bad weld and not a plate issue.
    The bow plates kept oil canning in on the Roamer and the owner keep adding fairing to the outside.
    After 20 years, The roamer did require some bottom and bow plates, a few angles replaced and stiffeners behind the bow plates.
    The older Striker in Alabama now (last heard of 15 years ago), still going strong.

    The only way to really answer this and protect your investments is to get a proper survey and Audio preformed. It's expensive. The bottom fairing (if used) has to be removed and a bare alloy showing. Bilges must be dry and clean.

    I'm not sure if the tanks are Integral on the Broward or spaced off like that Roamer. If they are, they must be empty.
  4. Scallywag

    Scallywag Member

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    I agree with rcrapps and Capt J. Technically, if treated properly alum alloy hulls will last "forever". The problem is a boat is rarely treated properly for it's entire life. Maintenance gets deferred and that's where the trouble starts. An aluminum boat is a different breed than a "plastic" boat. They are less forgiving to deferred maintenance and ignorance. Fortunately, it is pretty simple:

    1.) Keep bilges dry and clean!
    2.) Understand dissimilar metals and apply this knowledge to avoid galvanic corrosion. Don't thread bronze hardware right into your aluminum for example.
    3.) Tef-gel is your friend. Every screw and fastener should be bedded with Tef-gel or some comparible monkey snot to keep things galvanicly isolated.
    4.) Fiberglass boats require a fiberglass repair guy every now and then. Aluminum boats require a welder from time to time. Not a huge deal.
    5.) Paint maintenance is a big item. Aluminum likes to blister paint if not applied correctly. New coating technology makes this less of an issue, but you will be chasing down paint touchups much more often than a fiberglass boat.
    6.) Monitor your zincs and CAPAC system.

    If you keep these issues in mind, your aluminum boat will outlive you.
  5. Oscarvan

    Oscarvan Senior Member

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    I once read a long article on a famous aluminum yacht restoration. As they entered the "shed" there were cups nailed on to the door frame and every worker got to take the small change out of their pockets and put it in the cup with their name on it.......
  6. Capt Ralph

    Capt Ralph Senior Member

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    I remember a story about a ticked off employee; carefully deposited his change (rolls of pennies) in the bilges.

    Alloy yacht owner rule #1. When you have a ticked off (ex) employee or contractor; Don't let him back in the bilges.
  7. Capt Ralph

    Capt Ralph Senior Member

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    It's amazing how much of this stuff I go thru on plastic boats.
    Any project on some Roamers and A Striker I worked on, I'd start with 2oz syringe tubes in the morning and empty by days end. Small tubes of 42&5200 also.

    I used to tape off hardware, apply 4200, go to lunch or another project then come back in an hour or two.
    Just a thin coat of fresh 4200 THEN bolt the new hardware down. Always enough for some adhesion but the gasket it made was great. Also Tef-gel or nylon isloators, usually both. Razor blade off the squeeze by (tape was down) and wola, pretty and never a problem and over twice the labor. There is no rip off or scam here; cost of life on an alloy platform.

    The cost of owning an alloy boat is ensuring your investment is worked on properly and it does cost more. Labor and proper materials need to be considered when purchasing and repairing an alloy boat; It cost more to mount that pretty deck light or gizmo vs a plastic platform.
  8. Scallywag

    Scallywag Member

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    Hah! Good point. I find its good to hit the bilge with a shop vac in every corner ever month or two depending on how much work is going on. Electricians drive me *nuts* stripping wires and letting all that copper fly into the bilge. I hover like a hawk when anybody is working on my boat and give them a nice little intro to metallurgy 101 prior to them doing anything. Afterward I clean up with a shop vac session anyway.

    One time I found a copper bolt (or nut... I forget) in the bilge wedged up against a stringer. There was minimal corrosion around it, but it was a bit "welded" in place by an oxide layer. I estimate that thing was there for a long, long time (years) since this was my first time cleaning out the bilge after buying my "big soda can". I think what saved me is it was in a relatively dry location. If it was sitting in a seawater puddle it would have made its way through my plate.

    Oh... forgot to mention. Absolutely no copper based bottom paint! The good stuff is more expensive and less effective than copper based paint after 18+ months in the water. I haul and reapply every 2 years. That is another added maintenance expense.

    More expensive to maintain, yes. Less forgiving, sure. But there is something nice about having your hull welded together as one congruent piece instead of a bunch of pieces of plastic glued together! Also a custom boat is built instead of popped out of a mold.
  9. Oscarvan

    Oscarvan Senior Member

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    Technique I learned was to put a nice thick layer under whatever I was mounting, and not fully tighten it down. 24 hours later do that.
  10. Capt Ralph

    Capt Ralph Senior Member

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    That is where I started.
    But was never sure of how a project item floated in the glue. Never sure there was a nice gasket on all corners.
    That's when I decided on my current installation plan. Let some sealant flash and start curing, reapply a film of fresh and snug it down. Cut off the squeeze later (all taped off).
    I was going to start experimenting with plastic pads but my days on alloy boats ended and never perfected a technique on that.
    Maybe some of the better engineers have practiced that idea.
  11. refugio

    refugio New Member

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    Buried in this story about a Marin ferry that had their waterjets installed backwards during a refit - the boat now runs backwards! - was a section about using "faulty" aluminum:
    "This is not the first hiccup for the 141-foot, two-deck, 450-passenger, catamaran. A year into service, maintenance workers discovered aluminum used to build the ferry’s hull corroded more quickly in seawater than expected.

    Nichols Bros. Shipyards in Washington state built the ferry. The problem occurred when an aluminum plant sent Nichols Bros. the faulty material. That plant had changed its manufacturing process, which altered the composition of the aluminum, Nichols officials said at the time. Normal aluminum holds up for 50 years and beyond, but the aluminum used in the Mendocino would last only about 20 years, bridge officials were told.

    The Mendo was shipped back to Washington state for repairs in December 2002. Those repairs were expected to take three months, but the work was more intensive than first believed and took about a year."​
  12. Scallywag

    Scallywag Member

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    When somebody says "aluminum" it can mean many different things. Aluminum is an alloy. There are many different alloys. The only acceptable plate alloy for a salt water environment is 5000 series, specifically 5086 or 5083. 6000 series (containing magnesium and silicon) can be used for extrusions. Using 7000 series (contains lots of zinc) or 3000 series (contains lots of manganese) will result in rapid catastrophic failure.

    Nobody builds a seagoing boat out of inferior material. Sounds like these guys were trying to save some material costs.

    Edited to add: It also sounds like these guys are inept.
    Last edited: Dec 19, 2015
  13. Capt Ralph

    Capt Ralph Senior Member

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    I remember reading about this in PBB.
    The alloy was incorrect for the rolling required around the stern and hull shape plates.
    It was a big fubar. Looking for that old (years ) magazine now.
  14. saltysenior

    saltysenior Senior Member

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    many older aluminum boats were built using different alloys .......even the welding wire must match..........................................I know, I'm the retired King of Bondo