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Bosch Govenor Failure 12 valve mtu 183 te 92

Discussion in 'Technical Discussion' started by Geobsum, Sep 26, 2015.

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  1. Geobsum

    Geobsum Member

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    My govenor failed causing my throttle to jam at 2050 rpm on my port engine. The fuel stop could not shut off the fuel and to gain control of the boat I shifted into neutral on both engines. The starboard was at idle but the port ran away and the engine destroyed itself!
    Looking for anyone with knowledge of or experience with govenor failure. I believe it is a Borsch injection pump. Insurance won't pay unless can show latent defect vs wear and tear.
    The names of any experts would be most helpful.
    Sam
  2. rgsuspsa

    rgsuspsa Member

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    The MTU engines you speak of are many years old, thus a latent defect is unlikely. That said, RPM Diesel in Ft. Lauderdale, FL services these engines, and is an MTU dealer. Also, Florida Detroit Diesel-Allison in Ft. Lauderdale has a marine division which supports these engines. Perhaps they can provide support services to evaluate the matter.

    By the way, the spelling of the governor manufacturer is, "Bosch".

    An additional aspect, and perhaps most importantly, why was the engine fuel shut down mechanism ineffective? Had it functioned properly the engine might have been prevented from destroying itself.
  3. Geobsum

    Geobsum Member

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    only 1045 hours on engines since boat in summers on Great Lakes
  4. YachtForums

    YachtForums Administrator

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    I have corrected the OP's spelling. Thanks Ron.
  5. rgsuspsa

    rgsuspsa Member

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    I understand about the hours of service, I was referring to chronological time since new / placed into service, which are typically the legal criteria for statute of limitations issues regarding latent defect cases.
  6. Capt Ralph

    Capt Ralph Senior Member

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    I believe it is a Borsch injection pump
    If the op believes the pumps caused the failure, Borsch would work.

    Question, high idle at 2050 is not the end of the world within a few minutes. Emergency shut down systems may have been available. Or at least turn the fuel off.

    Was any actions involved to shut down the engine at all?
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2015
  7. Capt Ralph

    Capt Ralph Senior Member

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    An additional aspect, and perhaps most importantly, why was the engine fuel shut down mechanism ineffective? Had it functioned properly the engine might have been prevented from destroying itself.

    This is what the insurance company will probably look at. What happened to any engine safety / emergency shut down equipment?

    AND was anybody knowledgeable enough to use these devices promptly?
  8. Marmot

    Marmot Senior Member

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    High idle only applies if the governor is functional. The sequence of events described suggests it failed.

    Don't blame the victim before all the operational information is available. Without knowing the location and circumstances, it is fair to state that once the operator determined that local control of the engine was lost, placing the gear in neutral was not an ureasonable action. The operator had no way of determining that a (very rare) governor failure had occurred and control of the boat was his highest priority.

    Again, that option depends on how many people were on the boat, where it was and the level of risk of leaving the helm to a passenger in order to troubleshoot a very unusual condition on a running engine. Determining the problem, and knowing that removing the load (taking it out of gear) would lead to a runaway requires a level of specialist knowledge that may be beyond most operators. All that also assumes an intimate knowledge of diesel engine governor operation, the location and appearance of manual stop devices and the risks involved.

    My take on this is that the OP is not looking for warranty service, he is trying to get the insurer to accept that fact that a mechanical failure lead to the destruction of an engine after taking reasonable actions to prevent what might have been a greater loss.
  9. dennismc

    dennismc Senior Member

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    so, did it "run away" or go overspeed ? would effect Ins |Co analysis.
  10. Capt Ralph

    Capt Ralph Senior Member

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    OP states; Jam at 2050 rpm.
    Thus far, that is the only thing we have to interpret from.
  11. Marmot

    Marmot Senior Member

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    I think the OP made it perfectly clear ...

    The throttle had no effect on engine speed while the gear was clutched in. That means the governor was delivering the amount of fuel required to produce the power required to turn the engine 2050 rpm under the propeller load.

    When the load of the propeller was removed, the same amount of fuel was sufficient to allow the engine to overspeed or "runaway" which in this case are the same thing.

    A runaway is an uncontrolled increase in engine speed- usually to destruction- beyond that selected or limited by the governor . An overspeed is an rpm beyond the maximum permitted by the manufacturer. A runaway typically, and very rapidly, results in an overspeed condition.
  12. K1W1

    K1W1 Senior Member

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    Anytime you lose control of an engines fuel regulation can lead to catastrophic results, shutdown flaps are installed in the inlet manifolds for the immediate closing of the sir supply, were these fitted and or operational.

    My all time favourite emergency stop is a C02 Fire extinguisher sprayed into the air inlet, this will stop the nastiest engine if it can stop the combustion before some rotating part decides to stop shaking hands with its friends.

    To have a governor failure in the full fuel position when up to that point everything has been running well is very rare in my experience.
  13. Marmot

    Marmot Senior Member

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    As this case shows, it doesn't require the failure to occur in the "full fuel" position. As you know, it takes very little fuel for an unloaded diesel to accelerate to high idle. If the governor failed and is unable to reduce fuel flow at that rpm, destructive overspeed will quickly occur.

    Since this failure happened with the governor delivering the amount of fuel required to maintain 2050 rpm under propeller load, when the load was removed the fuel delivery rate was far more than enough to cause a destructive overspeed.

    It doesn't always work. We once spent an hour and more than 30 20lb extinguishers trying to stop a 2 stroke medium speed OP (diesel electric) that was running steadily at about 350 rpm. Shutting the inlet ducting doors only caused the downstream duct to implode and leak enough air to keep the engine running. We just kept adding lube oil until we got a CO2 truck on the dock and literally flooded the engine with gas and snow.
  14. K1W1

    K1W1 Senior Member

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    The last 6 words are obviously key in that second quoted statement.

    I have seen 16v 396's run at full no load RPM with little more than the amount of rack they had at start.
  15. timvail

    timvail Senior Member

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  16. timvail

    timvail Senior Member

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    Insurance will not cover. Mechanical breakdown in this matter is not covered according to a broker friend of mine in the marine insurance business. However if the boat ended up on the rocks and sank then insurance would cover the costs according to him unless it could be proven the breakdown etc.
  17. Capt Ralph

    Capt Ralph Senior Member

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    I am sorry for your failure and troubles.
    Perils and disappointment this large can really pile on stress.
    Stay well.
  18. K1W1

    K1W1 Senior Member

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  19. Marmot

    Marmot Senior Member

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    Isn't that MTU block the same as the MB OM444? Lots of them used in machinery. Buy a running takeout and swap the marinization bits maybe.
  20. K1W1

    K1W1 Senior Member

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    I am pretty sure they are the same, I am also under the impression there are engines with a MAN Valve cover that are actually the same too.