Advice regarding refit of a 40m yacht

I'm not sure about Europe. But if you ship it to South Florida from the Med. I think Rybovich would be a good choice for your needs.

Similarly to Capt J, I know nothing about refits in Europe. However, there is a tremendous amount of skill and experience in South Florida. Rybovich would be my first choice as well. I prefer the idea of a full service shipyard. Also, since extending the boat is part of your project, their experience in doing so should be valuable.

Another yard that has quite a long list of refits is ACY. Their experience is more SF, but they've done a variety of projects.

One question I'd ask all I'm considering is about the jobs they've said no to in the past, especially the boats they said they couldn't do extensions on as requested. To me that tells a lot about those you're dealing with as they all get some requests that just won't lead to a good result. The good yards tell the owner that and say that in good conscience they can't do it. The bad yards, especially those struggling financially, aren't about to say no to any work. And speaking of struggling financially, I do advise making sure of the financial stability or anyone you entrust such a project to. At the best financial problems lead to poorer workmanship and shortcuts. Covering mistakes rather than correcting them. At the worst they lead to jobs that drag on for years and cost far more than quoted initially.

Hi,

Wherever you choose to do it make a solid detailed plan before you start and stick to your plan.

Do not approach it with any perhaps we will do this or maybe do that if you want to have a good chance of meeting your time and budget numbers in any recognisable format.

A couple comments...

There are many yards in Europe that can do the work. The costs of shipping forth and back would go a long way towards paying for a repaint for the size of boat you have.

We have no idea the age or value of the boat nor its construction and that all effects things.

But the issue I see is you are actually contemplating pretty extensive refit with the interior work including sound deadening and other upgrades beyond decor or refurbishment. If you are going to approach the sound issues you are having to hire an expert engineering firm in that sound situation. They will want to do a complete survey before of the current situation under various conditions then they will need to go back to the engineering company that did the work on the boat in the first place to complete a design approach. Basically I would guess you will have a complete interior removal to address those issues (I may be wrong if it is just minor issues or mountings in the machinery spaces ect) but it could get real extensive fast.

Secondly, you mention an extension similar to something like what was put on the Moonen 42m Sofia... this was done while in construction but it was an after thought so it is similar to your situation. It sounds like a good idea.

You did not mention the construction (aluminum, steel, or composite) nor the builder of the boat. It makes a difference.

I would seriously consider going back to the original builder and design team to work with you... and seriously consider hiring the same build supervisor.

Project management is basically keeping schedule as that is the primary cost driver. If the project is well pre-engineered and planned in excruciating detail you will be happier in the end... and the cost can be controlled. If there is any sloppiness up front you might as well have an open check book policy! Good yards can give you firm fixed pricing... if the project is defined in excruciating detail up front. I would suggest going that was with a top notch yard than trying to cheap out.

There are many companies in the Med. that can do the job well... some of them are...
Amico... Genoa, IT
Angle Services... Toulon, FR and they have services in the Caribbean
Monaco Marine... La Ciotat, FR

All of these yards are very busy. All will give you what you need. All are used to dealing with you (not you but guys like you) and will guide you through.

Now a comment or two super yacht refits are expensive. They are also lucrative for the companies. These companies are extremely busy... you would be stunned at the number of large and extraordinary yachts in cue particularly in the off season getting ready at each. There is no deal to be had. You can go to a yard that does not specialize in refits and get a better upfront deal but you might not be as happy in the end.

If you are going to develop a bid package... that will cost money and time. But if you want competitive bids you have to pay that price upfront. But if you show up with a good plan it will help control costs. The difference is the bid package approach is much more difficult and costly to prepare and takes time.

A "bid package" is a detailed program of what needs to be done exactly... it is a technical and program management specification. The problem is most yacht owners and management companies are not really good at this and it requires services of a professional surveyor, and highly experience refit program manager to complete. It will unfortunately be incomplete and the yard will find other things... look at what happened with Ulysses now renamed it was just purchased and the little refit ended up being much bigger because the yard found things! http://www.***************.com/editorial/37/article/id/11847

This finding things is not really what the yard wants because it impacts their work flow, remember they are busy, but if something goes wrong they don't want to have missed it after you leave. But they have evolved to deal with the unexpected.

Unfortunately, super yacht owners are very successful people who when it comes to the yacht fall down on the job. It is a hobby or a recreational activity and they don't apply the same skills they learned in making the money. That means they are poor at creating bid packages that are realistic. OR just don't want the hassle.

The spectrum runs from the rare bid package to the showing up "I want a refit but don't want to be bothered with the details... "just make it like new" group. The later is commoner than you would know. Therefore, the refit yards have developed to handle the owner wishes against the practicality of getting it out the door. It is expensive but they can pretty much take over from your "I want it nice" directive.

The intermediate way and I suppose the common way is a "good plan". You and your crew set down and list what "needs to be done," what "is wanted to be done" and "dreams to be done". In as much detail as possible. Go over the list in two to three stages. The first go over will help you understand its bigger job than you thought. The second will refine it. By time you do this the third time will be the red pen line through pragmatic.

Then go visit the yards and pick your poison. They will go over the list with you and probably make suggestions. Then when you make your decision and the yacht is in-house and started they will find things and you can refine.

Often the builder of the boat will be in the program management of the refit... you hire them to manage it for you AND they will use one of the yards that I or others have recommended and not do it at home so to speak. I think this is the best way for anything extensive, and really the refit guys are better at refits anyway. Even sailboats I think this is true. I would do this on your project or hire the Naval Architect of the boat. As your boat is of Italian decent those yards are really pretty well covered by in-house Naval Architects... so you get one you get both. Why do it this way adds some to the cost but if you are doing like they did on Sofia you need that OEM input.

I would go with Amico... personally they are a truly impressive place now... from rather humble beginnings. So they are on the right track. They also have a custom tailored program management computer program they use that I think is really neat and helps a lot. Besides they understand your boat being Italians.

Now a couple comments. This crap that this country or that country does things best etc etc etc. is now days I feel... with the right yard... is obsolete.

However, I have had a business venture we decided to put in the USA mid-west. It has been hugely disappointing as far as manufacturing capability and performance is concerned. Honestly, it would have been better in France... or perhaps the American SW. Politically we got the best support in the beginning and then that end got very poor and had to almost be started over. Even the lady that handles the politic end is ready to put it out of the American Mid-west and she is a native, she even told me awhile back it makes no business sense to continue it there. I think perhaps we just chose the wrong location maybe a couple hundred miles would have made a difference. The point is that everywhere has good places and bad places regionally but the right people and management with a labor base wanting to work I don't think it should matter. I suppose what aggravates me about this situation is I have to go there and eat the hog slop they consider food... way way way too often... otherwise it has little effect. Why it was picked is not far away is CATs large engine plant in Lafayette, IN that I think pretty really great... and the labor base nearby seemed under-ultilized... I know why now!

I am unfamiliar with American refit yards... and though an American by birth I have gotten to be more comfortable doing yacht things in Europe.

If you decide to stay in Europe for this complex refit, I would have a few proposals for you.

In the Med, I would stronghly advice to concider Astilleros de Mallorca, located in the Harbour of Palma. I have had many points of contact with them in the past and was never disappointed with their work and their bills . I can tell, they are very busy, as my boat is moored just around the corner in Palma harbour.

Second, if you do not mind going to Northern Europe for a major refit, I would propose the Royal Huisman Repair and Refit department. The highest quality of work and project management you can get in the Netherlands. I have contact with owners, who have done refits at RH with perfect results.

In Germany, I would propose Fassmer (north of Bremen). Abeking and Lürssen would be far to expensive for a 40 Meter Yacht, as their overhead is focused towards 60 Meters+.

Hi,

Composite Works in La Ciotat also have a good reputation for decent refit work

Agreed.

Yes, and they are up and coming hard workers... not so big but still busy place. I would say they are like Amico was 10 - 12 years ago...

CWs are very well equipped and I like the yacht lift they have there. Also they do have excellent cranes and travel lifts. But I get scared every time the straps are used to lift and personally like a more solid situation than having the boat dangle on the straps. All those I recommended and Composite works keep those things and the straps used in excellent repair so no worries.

La Ciotat is a nice place too... and about 10km up the road is the very charming Roquefort-la-Bédoule were I met the love of my life! Very nice area. Cassis is a a favorite place too and nice marina just a little west. Toulon is were the French have a naval base and it is just a little east.

This reminds me is JFA might be another consideration. And, they have a nice and huge yacht lift with a railroad setup.

Another consideration aside from the cost of shipping the yacht to and from the US is the time. You are going to lose several months shipping the boat round trip.