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3-phase boat-single phase dock? Atlas system.

Discussion in 'Technical Discussion' started by HIBANX, Jun 2, 2014.

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  1. HIBANX

    HIBANX Member

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    Can you power a boat wired for 3-phase power from a dock that has only single phase? Does an Atlas system solve this issue? My boss is thinking of buying a new 3 phase boat, but the home dock has only single phase power. The boat has an Atlas system, but I don't know if that will address this issue. Anyone here have any experience with this?
  2. sagharborskip

    sagharborskip Senior Member

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    An Atlas system (or A/Sea) isn't cheap...if the dock belongs to the boss, why not have the electric company run 3-phase out to the dock...will wind up being a lot cheaper if it's the only place you'll need the conversion.
  3. Capt Bill11

    Capt Bill11 Senior Member

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    "Atlas supplies, to the yachting community, solid-state frequency converters from its ShorPOWER product line as a means of achieving clean and reliable onboard power from a dockside connection -- anywhere in the world. This conditioning of dockside marina power can be done without any type of power interruption. With a ShorPOWER installed on your yacht, if you choose correctly, you'll never again be concerned about whether the dockside power is 50 Hz or 60 Hz. It won’t matter if the available dockside voltage is 208 volts, 240 volts, 380 volts, 480 volts, single-phase or three-phase. That's because the ShorPOWER frequency converter product line offers automatic conversion of any dockside power source, anywhere in the world, into power tailored to your yacht's specific electrical requirements."
  4. HIBANX

    HIBANX Member

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    That answers the question...assuming that is the same system that is installed on the new boat. Thanks.
  5. HIBANX

    HIBANX Member

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    The boat already has the Atlas system. My understanding is that it is a very expensive operation to add a 3 phase line to the dock, so if the Atlas will do the job, it won't be necessary.
  6. Capt Ralph

    Capt Ralph Senior Member

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    "My boss is thinking of buying a new 3 phase boat"

    Have your boss get a detailed survey done on the on Atlas System.
    PHP:

    If' it's truly plug & play, that would be cool. It could be scary to plug something new & strange into a 100 amp service and Atlas goes to lunch.
  7. Chasm

    Chasm Senior Member

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    There are basically two questions.

    Which system is installed? (And does it work?)
    -> Atlas makes quite a few different systems. The guess in this thread is that it's a ShorPOWER system. There are several, each has it's own requirements starting with basic things like input voltage range, number of input phases and power requirements.
    It is necessary to find out what the installed system can do, for example some of the large ones require 3 phase input.

    Can the single phase line supply enough power?
    -> Depends on the installed system. May lead to power usage restrictions. Which may be acceptable or not.
  8. Ken Bracewell

    Ken Bracewell Senior Member

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    I would guess that, even though the Atlas system will work with your single phase power supply, there won't be enough amperage to run the boat.

    I had a 3-phase 408v line run to my boss' dock, and I think it ran about $15-$20k through FPL (I assume you're in Daytona). The real kicker is that FPL won't treat it as a residential service and charges us commercial rates. We average $100/day on a 145'.
  9. K1W1

    K1W1 Senior Member

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    Hi,

    Whatever single phase current supply you can get will need to be divided by 3 to get your phase current.

    If you have a 100a single phase setup you will get approx 30 amp per phase.

    If you vessel needs 100A 3ph and you can supply 300a Single phase you should be ok mathematically just not sure about the hardware for a single phase connection like that
  10. captholli

    captholli Senior Member

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    As was stated , you would need three lines of single phase voltage @ the highest amperage possible and Hubbell limits their plugs at 100 amps. I've never had to worry about plugging a three phase system into a single phase source as the output Kva of the converter wouldnt be worth dragging the shore power cords out. These units run at peak efficiency with the highest input or primary side voltage that you can supply. @ 440 or 480 three phase input & your running @ 80 % of the rated Kva efficiency @ 208 output. No converter can run @ 100 % efficiency, Anything lower voltage wise on the input side and your output amperage drops with the input number. If you don't want to play musical load dropping ,ie turning off half your AC's and boilers & tell the stews they cant run the laundry when the galley's fired up than do yourself and the boss a favor and have a solid 440-480 v 3 phase service put in place. unfortunately the shore side Hubbell recepts cant seem to standardize their plugs between 4 pin and five pin with center stud etc so be prepared to have a few different pig tails to plug in when away from your home dock.
  11. HIBANX

    HIBANX Member

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    Thanks Ken. That is exactly what I am hearing.
  12. Ken Bracewell

    Ken Bracewell Senior Member

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    Sorry- that should have said 480v
  13. Marmot

    Marmot Senior Member

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    ??

    The boat requires a certain amount of power. If the shore power plug can handle 100A at 120VAC single phase it can supply about 12kW. That same amount of power can be delivered by slightly more than 18A by a 480V 3 phase supply.

    If the supply can provide 480V 3 phase you can get about 98kW through that plug at 100A.

    The above figures are based on a .8 power factor.

    And for the record, you don't add the current of each leg in a 3 phase circuit. What goes up one leg goes down the other two in a balanced circuit.
  14. captholli

    captholli Senior Member

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    That would be 100 amps @ 220 v. Single phase that would be present on a dock. depending on whether it was a "Y" or Delta configuration you would still have to make sure that you would have L1 L-2 L3 phase sorted either way I Bow to your knowledge and don't want to get into a pissing contest with you OK?
  15. Marmot

    Marmot Senior Member

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    Why would there be a pissing contest, this is just math and physics, not opinion.

    If the shore power supply is 220V single phase then just double the power that is available from that 100A single phase source. You have about 24kW instead of 12kW for the same current as the 110V source.

    If you get your phases wrong your motors turn backwards, nothing more nothing less.
  16. captholli

    captholli Senior Member

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    You misunderstood me Richard, I was speaking about if you had to pick up three separate lines of 208 / 220 v 100 amp single phase off of a dock and try to plug into a freq. Converter. If by chance that you had two legs of the same phase it would be a direct short. Hence sorting out your phasing coming off the line transformer that's supplying the single phase with either high Delta or Y configuration. as far as reverse phasing goes on three phase, for the record
    All freq. Converters sort your rotation and proper phasing automatically these days. No more motors or compressors running backwards for quite a few years now.
  17. NEO56

    NEO56 Member

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    I'm glad I came across this thread, I plan on putting in an Atlas system into the new build, but I am a complete Moron when it comes to electrical systems. Although I intend on acquiring some level of knowledge during the build, I would like to install a seamless system that would regulate amps and sine waves from shore power,(which Atlas does) but also automatically kick on the generators when required, and also start the other gen set to allow better energy management.....does such a system exist?

    I'm hoping all of you along with Captholli will weigh in on this.
  18. Marmot

    Marmot Senior Member

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    Be careful who you ask about what.

    The folks at Atlas will be very happy to provide you with reliable information. You might want to take a run up to their office and have a chat. It will be well worth your time.
  19. NEO56

    NEO56 Member

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    Thanks, I will. I actually sat next to the President of Atlas at the Bimini Boatyard after walking the docks at the Ft. Lauderdale boat show a few years ago, and bought him a couple of drinks. I have his card somewhere, and fully intend on paying them a visit.
  20. captholli

    captholli Senior Member

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    Imtech Marine has lead the industry in PMS and switchboard automation for years now. Tried and tested technology and found onboard most of the new builds around the world. Excellent equipment and good field support when needed.