Purchase Advice

Hi,

Hold the feet to the fire - boat is being sold as is so you need to have some buffer there to cover a number of things you no doubt missed

It depends on the agreed upon "As Is" price. Is this a bargain at the price? If so is it still a bargain with the known deficiencies? You may be able to squeeze a bit more but don't be surprised if someone else steps in and buys this boat out from under you.

If it's not a good deal, perhaps you should decline and shop for another boat.

I've seen so many surveys and been oh so surprised at what was missed. So expect there to be more.
I wouldn't be too concerned with the stove and oven as the best thing to make for dinner on a boat is reservations.
I would look carefully at that wiring to make sure it was in fact just to a stereo system. (It should have been removed with the system.) It could be for alarms or all sorts of things.
How does she know the a/c needs to be replaced? Tell her you're willing to bring on an a/c tech, but above a minor repair the cost will come off the offering price.
The gen is not an issue if she's agreed to have it repaired. (Were she smart, she'd have had that done before showing the boat.)
That bent valve on the thru-hull is a real concern. Is the valve (and all the valves) operational? Just a handle is no big deal, but more than that and you got a haulout included.
Trim tabs must work. Hard to even get a good sea trial on that boat without them. Are they just low on fluid or is there a problem. That comes off the price.
Anchor windless is a few thousand. That comes off the price.

Bottom line though is that if she's had it for sale for 24 months "by owner" I think you're dealing with a penny-wise / pound-foolish owner who will probably not budge on price. Make the right offer (but expect her not to take it), put your name on the waiting list for the marina, and keep shopping.

P.S. I wouldn't worry about anybody buying the boat out from under you. If they do it'll be their problem.

Also, I don't know any marinas that allow boat sellers to transfer their slips with the sale. You could easily find yourself with this boat and be at the back end of that waiting list anyway. Check that out with the marina. The deal will probably look a lot less appetizing when you hear their answer.

I agree w/ all that NYCAP says. I'd be very careful of this one. Besides, an "Exhaustive survey (6+ hrs in/ out of water)" is what I consider a bare minimum, even for a small vessel by an experienced surveyor. On my last purchase, my buyer's survey was over 2 days before the sea trial.

That is classic, the missus and I laughed like heck at that one Ed.

What a "bargain price" is on that boat.

Hi Walerius.

I've been shopping for a similar boat all winter now. I looked at several Carver models including the 3807. I saw a VERY nice one sell right out from under me at 49,500. I know of another in very VERY nice condition (all new enclosure, teak floors) that is listed for 59 (which is about the lowest on the market) who will probably take 55K. I actually settled on a 39 CPMY and am under contract for it now also pending survey.

The purpose of a survey is to find the deficiencies. A bargain price for that boat is somewhere around 50k. That STILL should leave room for negotiation with the seller. If they aren't with a broker, they probably aren't all that serious about selling, and won't also be about negotiating.

There are project boats available where a purchase price of $00.00 is too high. Caveat Emptor!

I saw a 3807 that you couldn't pay me to sink. Very True.

Just wanted to post a couple thoughts here.

I'm a new boater. In fact, "Live For The Ride!" is my very first boat.




While I don't know much about boating I know plenty about buying and selling, since a big part of my life has involved doing that to put kids through college and food on the table, etc, etc.

I know that when I'm buying something I have little knowledge about I have to do my homework and then get help from someone who DOES know what to look for by way of good things/bad things about my prospective purchase.

When I finally found my recently (last November) 1991 Carver 3807 I liked what I saw enough to hire a surveyor AND a marine mechanic to weigh in on what each of them discovered in a TRULY exhaustive survey. Four DAYS for the surveyor and almost an equal amount of time for the mechanic, who discovered enough "deferred maintenance" to generate almost 15K in repairs to the seller just to get the boat to where I'd consider buying it "as-is"!

Yes, there is "as-is" and then there is "AS-IS"!

Taking ownership of a boat from an original owner who has never changed out the carpeting or bedding or curtains or furnishings and no electronics ever installed since 1991, is taking a boat "as-is".

Taking ownership of a boat that has had many maintenance issues "deferred" (bottom sorely needed cleaning, repair of three blisters, then of course painting, replacement of props due to dings discovered during haul-out, all seacocks frozen from lack of exercise, engines needed service, genny wasn't running) and some bigger items, like in my case the aft AC unit unrepairable,, that would be taking a boat "AS-IS"!

I was willing to buy the boat "as-is" but would NEVER have considered it "AS-IS" because there's no price the seller would have considered that would have made me feel comfortable buying it in the "AS-IS" condition the survey revealed. There's just no way to off-set with by way of a price discount that much work! Not at a price anyone would accept anyway!

So I insisted on the "deferred maintenance" items being done and the major issues like the aft AC unit replaced.

I agreed to take the boat "as-is" if it was brought UP to an "as-is" level!

The seller agreed and I ultimately bought the boat and I've spent the winter having my mechanic do a "laundry list" of "need" items rather than "want" items, and I've installed a new Garmin electronics package to bring the boat up to modern standards in that regard, while my wife has focused on freshening the interior (Her "need" items! LOL!) with new upholstery and carpeting and drapes, etc, etc. (In fact she has it looking better than new now)

But if I hadn't used the TRULY exhaustive survey results to negotiate the HUGE repair list needed to get the boat sale-able (IMHO) I wouldn't have had the funds available to make the boat truly "nice" as it is now....those funds would have been spent just getting it to RUN the way it should! (and did when we closed on the deal thanks to all the work that got done, all because I got a VERY thorough survey, mostly from the mechanic's inspection, and refused to back down off the many important issues that survey uncovered.)

We're really excited about the boat and looking forward to our first season with it, but my point is, we would NOT be feeling this way if we had settled for buying it "AS-IS" rather than "as-is"!

One of the issues is your use of the term "exhaustive survey". If this much was found in a quick overview type survey, it is frightening as to how much more there might be. Suddenly, the boat becomes a major project boat with substantial costs to get it up to being usable. "As is" translates to "Buyer Beware." Actually as many times as repeated in this case to "Buyer be very aware." There's a reason it's not sold in 24 months. Whatever you are estimating in your mind as the cost to get it in good condition, you're terribly underestimating in all probability. Quadruple the number might be about right. Today the boat is not in condition to even do an adequate sea trial. That makes it a major rehab in my mind, maybe even something I'd label a salvage vessel.

Have to give Ed a point for that comment.

However, do remember his mention of grabbing a New York tube steak for a quick lunch, underway, during his current adventure.

Oh, just wanted to add as an aside....I know my case may be the exception, but some marinas will absolutely honor a request to keep the slip the boat has been in when it changes hands. When I bought "Live For The Ride!" I liked it exactly where it was and asked the marina manager if I could keep it there. While the slip contract is pretty specific that the marina does not HAVE to honor such a request, a polite and friendly exchange with the manager of the marina resulted in his promise to leave the boat right where it was if that's what I wanted, and he kept his word! I think sometimes, no matter what the "rulebook" says, just making yourself accessible to the management of the marina and sitting down for a friendly chat will go a long way towards staying there if that's what you want. After all, if the boat doesn't sell, the boat wouldn't be moving, right? So why not, as a marina manager, extend the courtesy of allowing a new owner to take over the existing slip of the boat when title changes hands? It costs the marina nothing and definitely promotes a lot of good will!

Actually it has more to do with the times and the economy. Pre-2008 most good marinas had waiting lists to come in. In fact I've been offered some serious money by those looking to jump the list back when I was running them. Today, most I see are a long way from full. So they're glad if they can keep a boat from leaving due to a sale,

Oh, I'm sure that was indeed part if it! (If not ALL of it....I'm really not all that charming! LOL!)

In fact at a recent boat show (labeled at the "Philadelphia Boat Show which was very misleading as it was WAY out of the Philly area) that was horribly disappointing by the way....drove a couple hours to get there and it was abysmally small with about 30% of the vendors of the Atlantic City Boat Show, but anyway, one of the vendors there was the owner of a family owned/operated marina in Margate, just a few minutes from where I'm currently keeping my boat. The owner showed me his fee schedule, which was already way less than what I'm paying, and THEN offered to negotiate an even lower price if I'd love and sign a couple year agreement! So yes, no doubt the marinas are struggling a bit.

I would have considered moving but a big part of the allure of having the boat in the first place is not only what I'll do to enjoy it out on the water, but also how much I can enjoy it on days when we don't leave the dock for whatever reason. (As a new boater I have no intention of going out on days when there is even a remote chance of bad weather. There are enough sunny and calm days I can go!)

At my current marina they have a lot of amenities beyond the water and electric hook-ups. A couple good restaurants, a live outdoor band and bar during the summer, and of course the casino for those who are into that. (I'm not into the gambling part but I like a show now and then.)

The place in Margate is near those things but doesn't have them on-site, and I like the idea of being able to walk up to the outdoor deck and listen to the band and chat with folks visiting. Ultimately though, I'll have to see how much of those things I actually do, since saving a few thousand dollars a year in slip fees may seem a lot more attractive after my first season!

EXPECT always to put additional 10 to 20% the cost of the boat when you buy a used one ... I have bought many boats in these years, with COMPLETE surveys and all, and Always ended up with this 10-20% additional to cover details , problems , hidden things and personal taste ....

my humble experience of course ...