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Anchoring .... Back and Forth

Discussion in 'General Yachting Discussion' started by Mark Woglom, Jan 10, 2014.

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  1. Mark Woglom

    Mark Woglom Senior Member

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    Our Lazzara 68 doesn't behave well at anchor. The boat has a lot of height/windage, and she sways back and forth. As we have an all chain rode, when it gets to the far end of a "sway", it yanks the anchor line taught, with a big/loud jerk at the pulpit. The problem is a real issue in 10-20 knot winds. Wouldn't want to experience 30 knot winds.

    More detail:

    1. More scope doesn't seem to help. I've tried as much as 6:1 or 7:1.
    2. It's clearly a wind issue ... She sits fine in a current, absent wind.
    3. I've tried a rubber snubber, a nylon rode snubber, and a "combination of both" snubber. The rubber snubber is a Shockles brand, and it pulls that thing **** tight. I worry I'll get a rubber band through the hull, or my skull.
    4. To some extent, I've tried tying the snubber back to a midship cleat, so the boat favors one side. It helps mitigate the amount of swaying, but it still sways, and seems to exacerbate the "yank" when it sways back to the favored side.

    Any suggestions?
  2. PacBlue

    PacBlue Senior Member

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    Are you using all chain, which is pretty typical for us out West?
  3. Ken Bracewell

    Ken Bracewell Senior Member

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    I'm pretty sure that the only way that you'll mitigate the heavy swinging is with a second anchor, set 30-45 degrees from the first.
    You can eliminate the risk of damage by using a long snubber made of nylon line. I would suggest 20'-30', and make sure you drop enough extra chain to allow the nylon to stretch 30% without coming up tight on the chain.
  4. Mark Woglom

    Mark Woglom Senior Member

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    Yes, all chain.

    I'd prefer that the boat have two windlasses, one all chain, and one chain/rope combo. I can run an all rope line on the capstan portion of the windlass, but not at the same time as the chain.
  5. Mark Woglom

    Mark Woglom Senior Member

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    I can see where that would help, but my spare anchor is 90 lbs, stored in a transom locker. Sure would take the fun out of anchoring if I had to haul that baby out every time, and try to get it set up on the capstan portion of the windlass. I can't even imagine trying to do it if it was just my wife and I, on a breezy evening.

    And if the wind shifts, wouldn't I be back to the same problem? (One rode would be loose)
  6. Pascal

    Pascal Senior Member

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    In winds under 15kts I don't use a bridle,l yes the boat (70' Johnson skylounge with high windage) swings quite a bit... So what? The catenary effect from the chain dampens the sock pretty well (7:1 scope)

    Over 15" I use a bridle... Just two basic nylon lines attached to a big schakle and chain hook. Each line is attached to a cleat on each side of the bow. I leave a big loop of chain dangling, I ve held in squalls up to 65kts no issue.

    I probably anchor 200 times a year...
  7. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    This is a good method, or I use 30' of Nylon rope hooked to the anchor chain, then I leave a lot of slack in the chain to where it's almost touching the bottom (in 20' of water or less). Sometimes tieing the Nylon rope to a cleat 15-20' aft of the bow helps as well if it's not going to run on the boat. The excess chain in the water helps to minimize the swinging a little by creating drag. A stern anchor is another option, but I'd use a 30lb Fortress (or less for that) with 10' of chain and nylon.....back up on your main anchor an extra 150', toss the Fortress, come back foward on your bow anchor 150' or so and set the Fortress.
  8. Old Phart

    Old Phart Senior Member

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    I dunno
  9. Capt Ralph

    Capt Ralph Senior Member

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    An other Dick Lazzara folly; Only one anchor on the bow?

    Pascal & J are on it. Experiments and practice will help you figure what is best for any winds. Keep a log of every drill. Light wind vs heavy winds will require different settings.
    Including dealing with currents; rudder and stabilizers could be turned or locked in place.
    Watch your fingers.
    ,rc
  10. Capt Ralph

    Capt Ralph Senior Member

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    Old Phart may have an idea there using a sea-anchor as a drone off the stern. In low current water, a small drone on medium scope may help.
    Again experiment.
    I have never tried it but I think there is an experiment coming for us with this thought. May even start with a bucket and rode to see if it does anything.
    More entertainment between cocktails.
  11. Fishtigua

    Fishtigua Senior Member

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    You could of cause just put the mizzen sail up. :D

    Attached Files:

  12. T.K.

    T.K. Senior Member

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    How long are your bridle nylon lines?
  13. Pascal

    Pascal Senior Member

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    Each line is 25' I think. The bow cleats are about 8' behind the chocks located at the bow so the lines needs to be a little longer.

    The main reason I use the bridle is really for noise as otherwise the chains rattles on the roller and against the SS plates lining the anchor chute. I don't think it makes a big difference in swing, although yes the drag of the chain probably helps a bit.

    Drag makes a difference at to the stern though. What s the draft on the 68 Laz? I think they are around 5' aren't they. We draw a little over 6 and that probably helps reduce the swing
  14. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    Usually about 25' is good on each bridle line. If I'm using a snubber line, I use a long line usually around 30', sometimes more. I've used double braid and on the 75' hatteras it liked it tied to the first cleat aft of the bow, about 10' back which gave the current enough resistance on the side of the keel that it didn't swing much. Turning the rudders hard over also helps on some boats if you have a decent amount of current. 3 strand can also help as a shock absorber over double braid. Each boat is different and you have to experiment a little, and some just anchor perfectly without having to experiment with anything. I've used sea anchors for fishing and I don't think they'd be good for anchoring. First you need decent current all of the time for them, also they like to spin and twist the line up eventually, and at slack tide they'll just get tangled on the bottom and not re-deploy themselves.
  15. Mark Woglom

    Mark Woglom Senior Member

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    Not sure he's the only one with that folly. I can't remember seeing a new boat (of this size/style) with more than one anchor up there. Princess, Sunseeker, even Hatteras, all have one anchor. I've seen two on trawlers, Nordhavn, Marlow, etc.

    I'd like two. One all chain, and one rope/chain combo.

    No kidding. There is serious tension on that chain. The flip down chain stop is a potential finger eater.
  16. Mark Woglom

    Mark Woglom Senior Member

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    It's only 4' 1". I'm sure that part of the problem.

    I'm going to try a longer snubber, and turning the rudders ... Didn't think of the rudders.

    Thanks for all the thoughts.
  17. Pascal

    Pascal Senior Member

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    Except for med mooring, which is extremely rare on this side of the pond, I don't see the point of using two anchors. It s a lot more work and I d rather have an oversized anchor than two smaller ones.

    Even a Bahamian mooring is rarely needed. We spend a lot of time anchored there and I have never needed to use two anchors.

    I like the KISS method.... One big oversized anchor, enough scope = no worries
  18. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    I don't mind one anchor. I like a lot of chain, like 300' with a lot of rope behind it, such as another 150-200 yards.
  19. CPT2012

    CPT2012 Member

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    Are there any formulas or parameters to determine the optimal size of your anchor ? And how much bigger should you go ?
  20. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    Each sized anchor is rated for it's load or how much weight it is designed to hold (with proper scope).