To License or not to License

This is to open up a discussion on the following question: Should an owner who has met the qualifications get a license?

I'd just like to hear those situations or reasons one thinks that could be advantageous or could be detrimental. We have checked with both our insurer and both our personal attorney and a maritime attorney she engaged for the discussion.

Here is our situation, same for wife and myself.

We intend to have boat or boats 63' or under and one in the 120'-130' range. We never intend to operate the larger boat without a licensed Captain aboard although we will at his direction assist in operating it. As to a 60-63, we do occasionally take it out alone for day or overnight trips. Longer trips we will have a licensed Captain aboard. There may be occasion we are on our own for inland navigation for brief periods. Note however again that we will never do so on the larger boat.

As to our situation, we both are very close to qualifying for 100 ton Master Inland and 100 ton Mate Near Coastal. We will qualify for 100 ton Master Near Coastal during the year of 2014. We expect to meet the qualifications for 200 ton Master in 2015. I have total sea time of over 1200 days but all prior to 2013 was inland and in boats 33 feet or less. She has a total sea time of over 600 days but all prior to 2013 was inland and in boats 33 feet or less.

Now we don't intend in any way to jump beyond our experience and we are training hard both course wise and in onboard. We are not ride along passengers but our captains extensively train us. Now we have no intention of any of our boats ever being used for charter either.

So this is simply a matter of whether in practical application we gain or lose anything by actually getting the license as opposed to getting the knowledge and foregoing the license.

Incidentally as to the insurance and legal advice we received. First, do not assume this applies to you as this is only advice or information we received from limited sources and for our situation. Licensing might save us a small amount on insurance since we could then say none of our boats would ever be operated without a licensed Captain aboard. However, the amount is not significant enough to influence our decision. As to the legal issue, it does make some difference. If we're operating the boat in the event of an accident, it makes no difference as we'd be sued regardless. However, if we were on the larger boat there might be slightly higher risk of suit by being licensed. Now being licensed might actually provide some protection, although again minimal to our Captain and Master of the boat. In the case we were operating under his control, having a license slightly reduces his exposure as he can't then be accused of letting an unlicensed person operate.

We will continue to evaluate this for some time as we're in no rush to make a decision. Until we reach our offshore time to qualify for near coastal it's not really relevant as the Inland Master doesn't really do much one way or the other. Just thought we'd raise the subject to those who may have encountered this question before.

Failed to mention that obviously we qualify for 6 Pack including 100 miles offshore already, but we've not done anything about that either.

Appreciate the replies so far and a couple of comments.

First, we're going to do the training, take the courses, get trained on the water, and everything else, whether or not we get licensed. We have enough passion for this to always want to learn more. And no one knows it all. That is other than the engineering side of things which we don't have a desire to learn or an aptitude for.

Second, I think to say we lack confidence is a slight mischaracterization. I'd rather say that we recognize that we don't have the experience of a 20 year veteran Captain. We haven't yet encountered the situations he or she has. I think we've worked hard and learned a lot and we feel quite confident. For larger boats you need more crew. Also, in not being mechanical experts we will always feel a need there. Right now we're both highly confident in navigating, piloting, docking, reading charts, using instrumentation and all those areas. On the other hand, we've never been in 20' waves, we've never done an trans-ocean crossing.

Some people, actually many, think we're crazy spending the time and money on the courses we've taken and continue to take. If they saw what our captains put us through in training, they'd think it even more. But we spend the vast majority of our time boating. We average 20 days per month. We average nearly 100 hours per month (engine time). Call it a crash course if you wish. But we're not going to insult those who have done this by years claiming we have your skills or experience. And we're just not the type who are going to buy a boat, jump behind the wheel with no training and think we know it all. Part of my success in business was being very good at what I did. However, the other critical part of that success was having people working for me who knew more than I did about their areas of expertise.

We tend to agree on the legal side as does our lawyer. Something goes wrong everyone gets sued, especially the one with the money. You can't live your life in fear of that. As to the insurance, if we've completed the courses and passed the tests as well as logged the time, our insurer says it's going to make little difference whether we get the license or not. Largely this is true because of the fact on the larger boat we're going to have a captain or captains anyway.

As to six pack we already fully qualify for 100 ton except need more days offshore to get the near coastal. We'll get that time in 2014. If we go on and get the 100 Master now we think we can qualify for the 200 ton no later than 2016.

We're not doing this just to do it either. We're committed to learning. One course, for instance, that we intend to take and hope never to use is Advanced Firefighting. Odds are it will never be of value but that's like insurance policies. Same with celestial navigation. We intend to always have instruments and use them. But it both serves as a safety if needed and it puts us somewhat in touch with our predecessors who didn't have the equipment of today.

Not going to carry anyone for hire.

As to a licensed operator bearing more responsibility than a de facto owner operating a boat, at least my lawyer and the maritime lawyer consulted with disagreed or said, if so, it was so minimum that it made no real difference. If you are negligent or do something that you've been trained to know better it's not really different. Yes, the Coast Guard holds a licensed Captain more responsible but they're not the only players in that situation. Regardless, risk is part of both owning and operating a boat.

I don't need a validation from anyone. On the other hand I will always be thinking I have more to learn. Don't we all? I'm quite comfortable with my skills. But I will constantly work to improve them. I'm a bit surprised that seems so difficult to grasp. On the other hand would I be comfortable with just my wife and myself and no other captain setting off across the Atlantic next week? No, but not planning that anyway. The only aspect I'm truly not comfortable is the engineering side of things, the mechanical and electrical side of things, and we have no plans to ever attempt to become experts in that area, just mildly passable perhaps. I'm far more secure in handling rough waters than I am in handling an engine failure.

Let me try the question once more in a more straightforward way. Disregarding insurance and legal liability and assuming we never intend to go on a 120' plus boat without a paid Captain, is there any reason for us to get the licenses. Now, I'm not asking if there's a reason to get the training. We believe there is, both practical and classroom. But the question is are there any circumstances in which not having the license would be negative. Why ask now? Because we don't want to get down the road and regret not getting the first ticket because of something we had no knowledge of. So we come to a place with knowledge that might be aware of any issues.

This isn't about confidence or training, it's about circumstances under which an owner having a ticket might be advantageous in the US or elsewhere.

I appreciate the answers from everyone and assume I didn't word it well initially as some of the answers are addressing issues other than those asked.

Don't think he's the only one chasing windmills. It seems that anytime licensing is mentioned on this site, it becomes a source of debate on experience versus license and even one license versus another. At least so far for this thread we haven't returned to a Captain versus Engineer battle.

Many people reach the same destination in life traveling very different courses to get there. It doesn't mean one road is better than the other. Just different.

I see I spoke too soon as Capt J and Marmot enter the ring.