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Something wrong with 53 or 56 voyager?

Discussion in 'Carver Yacht' started by offshore1, Aug 9, 2012.

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  1. offshore1

    offshore1 New Member

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    My wife and I are both 65yrs old and have owned many express type boats. We are now going to buy a raised pilothouse moter yacht and live on it 6 to 8 months a year cruising the East Coast, Bahamas and Florida. A lot of people tell me not to buy a 53 or 56 Voyager for this type of use. They highly suggest an Offshore, Ocean Alexander or Tollycraft. My thinking is that maybe the Voyagers are not good ocean boats as they may roll a lot. Is this true ?
    Brokers tell me they are not well thought of in the cruising offshore world. I see there are many for sale.
    Can anyone shed some light on this subject ?
  2. Waterhog

    Waterhog New Member

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    I love the Voyagers, but they are what they are. They are lake boats and intercostal water vessels. Unless you want to spend your 8 months waiting on the perfect crossing day you would be better to look at the others you mentioned.
  3. talexander38

    talexander38 Member

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    I love Carvers but most are boats made for 3 to 4 footers and when the time comes it'll be a boat made for open water to spent 6 months on, and I was home ported at a O.A. dealer and after seein' the workmanship of them I wouldn't waste a red cent on one...IMO
  4. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    I agree with the other sentiments and would also take a look at the 58' Searay SB, they are more capable ocean boats than the carvers and similar in interior styling.
  5. Kafue

    Kafue Senior Member

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    I cannot comment on the Voyager as I have only walked on one.
    As for the 3 others, they are all very good boats.
    The 57 Tollycraft is one of the best laid out boats I have seen and runs great. The saloon gets extra width by only having the starboard side walk around, the sacrifice is the entry to the flybridge is external at the mid starboard. Monk design I think, certainly has that Monk look. Only 12 or 13 built and popular on the West Coast. I have an idea that someone is using the moulds to build a new model of the 57, it is featured in a cruiser magazine using another name, can’t confirm this but looks very similar to the Tolly 57. A sign of the quality on these boats is that most are kept updated and hold value. Perfect pilothouse layout, mid master berth is huge, extra-large cockpit with controls. I had the only one in Australia under offer but the broker bought the boat himself (saying nothing more about that experience!). Owned an OA and Offshore and can recommend both, depending on which model in comparison to what your usage is.
    Good luck, you are buying in a perfect market.
  6. DanM

    DanM New Member

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    If you want an offshore cruising boat you need to be looking in a new direction. Bayliners, Meridians, Sea Rays, Carvers, Silvertons, Prestige, small Azimuts, etc. are coastal cruisers and lake boats. I keep mine on Lake Michigan which is a combination of the two. The fit and level of finish will differ from brand to brand but the goal for the design is similar. OA's. Kady Krogen, Norhavn (my personal favorite), Selene, Grand Banks, Bering's, Flemings, etc. are designed for extended offshore passage making with tankage, redundant systems and generally more heavily built. But even some within that group don’t have the displacement hull for long passage making voyaging. All that extra beef has a price tag to go with it. A 5 year old Carver or Sea Ray 56 can be found for about $500 to 600K. The same 5 year old Nordhavn 55 is around $1.3M to $1.5M. True offshore passage makers run at hull speed not planning speed so you need to be good with that as well.

    More than a name you need to make a list of your requirements. How far do you need to go before fuel ups, 200 or 2000 miles? Will you be harbor hopping or country hopping? Will you be spending hours or days/weeks at sea? Can you travel at will and pick only great days or will you want to go on a schedule? When you are weighing one boat against another you have to have a set of criteria that makes sense for your type of boating. If you start from there and work backwards you will come up with a short list that may not make sense for others but will be perfect for you. And that’s all that counts.
  7. offshore1

    offshore1 New Member

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    So what is the issue ?
    Rolling in ocean swells ?
    Pounding due to a poor bow entry degree ?
    Interior coming loose ?
    We plan to spend months in the Bahamas, cruise the East Coast and hang in Florida.
    i'm thinking around 54 foot. Something that cruises at 20MPH.
  8. PacBlue

    PacBlue Senior Member

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    Yes to all of the above. That curved Windscreen on the Flybridge will literally make you seasick if you spend a lot of time looking through it while motoring underway - something about the curved optics and the windscreen being so close will drive you nuts!

    I personally think the Fleming will do you fine and can get to the 20 mph speed you need. A more affordable option would be a Navigator 53/56, a decent sea boat with good speed/economy.
  9. Pascal

    Pascal Senior Member

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    For your intended use almost anything will be fine... Yes you may have to wait a couple of days to cross the stream or the tongue but doesn't seem like you ll be in a rush.

    Flemings are great but I doubt in the same price range as a Carver...

    I m obviously a little partial to Hatteras. They will cut thru 6 footers like a hot knife thru butter and the systems / build quality is a lot better... But the price is much higher fuel.

    No such thing as a free lunch...but again for your intended use you don't need a tank
  10. Laurence

    Laurence Senior Member

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    Look how much money you would save if you take time to wait for the weather window.
  11. captainwjm

    captainwjm Senior member

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    I agree w/ Pascal and Lawrence. As the saying goes, the most dangerous thing to have on a crusing boat is a schedule. For what you're contemplating, a Carver will do fine. I've had a smaller Carver and several dock neighbors have 56's. No complaints. One neighbor moved here from Lake Erie, and he tells of regularly crossing over to Toronto - about the same distance from S. Fla. to Bimini. But, be it a Carver or something else, a careful survey is essential.
  12. PacBlue

    PacBlue Senior Member

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    A Navigator 53/56 will over-take a Carver Voyager in any see condition, it just won't have the modern exterior styling cues. It would also offer your biggest bang for the buck.

    Motor Boat & Sailing had a nice feature article (around 2000) on one that was highly cruised, from West Coast to East Coast and the Great Lakes and is kept in Naples.

    Substance over style everytime.........
  13. offshore1

    offshore1 New Member

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    Funny navigator was mentioned.
    That's the second boat brokers in Florida told me to stay away from.
    While we are add it, Novatek was the third due to the poor resale, I guess due to the slanted fly bridge windows.
    Running the Great Lakes is completely different from running to the Bahamas and anchoring out for a few weeks at a time.
    I agree navigator and Voyagers are adequate lake boats and agree O.A., Offshore, Symbols, Tolleys and Hatts are perfect for East Coast offshore cruising and the Bahamas.
    The problem is the price. It's hard to justify paying $500,000 to $600,000 for a 20 yr old boat that has been in salt water ( even well taken care of ) and needs upgrading. The ones I look at need aid conditioning compressors, electronics, pumps and impellers to start. Not to mention interior and gally upgrades. A recent 1999 54' Tollycraft in Palm beach was selling for $649,000 asking and needed all of the above. The broker said the owner might consider a " slightly " less offer. I'm told 10 yrs on air conditioning compressors is life expectency for a boat in Florida fulltime. 4 compressors x $5000. = $20,000 for starters. Am I missing something ? Shouldn't these 20 yr old boats be selling in the $250,000 to $300,000 range ?
  14. Kafue

    Kafue Senior Member

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    Whether you buy a Carver or Hatteras, OA or Offshore, items like impellers, compressors, fan belts, batteries etc. will all fail at varying time on any boat and are often from the same manufacturers, but with a quality boat you don’t have the same concerns about how it has been is wired, how the fibreglass has been laid, what the bulkheads are made of etc. That’s why the price difference and if you take care of the better boat you will get the same higher level of resale over the lesser quality boat.
    I would buy an older Hatteras any day over a newer flashy lesser quality boat.

    Tollycraft examples:
    1995 Tollycraft Motoryacht Power New and Used Boats for Sale - au.**************
    YW# 1921-2287525

    YW# 21624-2408366
    1994 Tollycraft Pilothouse Power New and Used Boats for Sale - au.**************

    Hatteras
    YW# 75743-2373076
    1984 Hatteras 53 Motor Yacht Power New and Used Boats for Sale

    For more info on the Hatteras brand, contact some of the Hatt owners on this forum, they know which boats are worth a look in the US.
    As for Carver, Sea Ray and Bayliner they obviously are good boats for the market to which they are aimed at. Why buy a Nordhavn for a lake or a Custom Convertible for Bass fishing.
  15. PacBlue

    PacBlue Senior Member

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    I am a big fan of Jack Hargrave, and know there are a lot of loyal Hatt owners on this board, but really, reccommending an almost 30 year old Hatt:confused:

    I just can't see it, there has to be a decent boat brand less than 20 years old in todays buyers' market. The Tollycraft is a questionmark, as I believe the company was sold and changed hands a few times towards the end, and the workforce had some issues. I would not consider that model one of Monk's better works, as there were a lot of cooks in the kitchen at that time at Tolly. His stuff at OA was far exceeding the Tollycraft brand as well.

    The Navigator brand seems to confuse some people on this board, and they really did not do a good job of Dealer Distribution in SE Florida (except for the Galati years), but the Marshall family has built thousands of boats over 30', (Californian and Navigator) maybe the most profilic mid sized yacht builder in the West. For everey broker that is steering you away from one, I can find you two knowledable ones that would have a different opinion. I can tell you that Carver sent their design team to Navigator's dealer in the Northwest with tape measure and notepad inhand to jump start the Voyager design and they were extremely successful in mimicking the layout with a more modern appeal.

    But just like trying on a suit, you have to find the one that fits you. Tough choice but there are bargains out there in the $300K range:)
  16. Waterhog

    Waterhog New Member

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    You may want to look inland for some deals. Our marina at Green Turtle Bay has a 58 Hatteras listed much lower than the range you mentioned. The pics look pretty nice and the interior has been upgraded. I do not know anything about the boat and do not have a iron in the fire with it, but there are some nice boats out there for much less than you mentioned.
  17. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    I just ran a 61' Viking SC (flybridge boat) that was a 2003 and sold for under $500k. It needed none of that, engines were recently serviced by MAN, and was in pretty good shape, but did need some small fixes to various systems, and I ran the boat from Ft. Laud to Wisconsin without any weather delays nor issues requiring immediate attention. I would take that ANY DAY of the week and twice on Sunday over a Carver.......not that they're a terrible boat, but they're not very good either when it comes to ocean handling. I've run a 58' Searay from Boca Raton to Conneticut, they are pretty decent handling boats all in all and modern and can be had in your price range as well......
  18. offshore1

    offshore1 New Member

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    Kafue
    thanks for the listings.
    I have seen these and the same issue exists.
    These boats need $$75,000 invested to bring them up to cruising standards.
    They are almost 20 yr old tired boats.
    That's without touching the mains or gens.
    How can one be expected to buy a 1994 Tollycraft for $499,000 and put $75,000 minimum in it to safely cruise offshore and the Bahamas ?
    The mains and gen will need majors in a few years. I don't mind loosing a few bucks on a boat but don't want to take a beating.
    Wife thinks these are the requirements;
    Main cabin sleeping mid ship, out of the bow. That means at least 52 foot.
    We have a dog and she doesn't think climbing down a ladder to the swim platform to take the dog in the dinghy or us is appropriate.
    Aft cabins have a lot of stairs. That means a Piolothouse MY.
    I say the boat must be reliable for offshore and Bahamas. That means a substantial investment in 15 to 20 yr old boats.
    Needs to be able to cruise at 20mph if needed.
    What a delima.
    And the worst is, I need to stay in the $400,000 to $500,000 range after upgrades.
  19. Kafue

    Kafue Senior Member

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    Offshore,
    It is a delima. That is why it takes time to find the right boat. I spent close to 2 years and even then have had some surprises. However, the right deal for an older boat that is affordable is there in this market. You can't beat a well designed pilothouse with a large cockpit if you want comfortable cruising. There are well respected brokers on this forum who may be able to help. Good luck.
  20. offshore1

    offshore1 New Member

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    Fantastic older Hatts but remember, my wife says no climbing down the ladder to the swim platform to get in the dinghy or carrying the dog.
    That's why i was thinking Raised Pilothouse MY.