Click for Abeking Click for Ocean Alexander Click for Burger Click for Ocean Alexander Click for Abeking

Can I captain a mini-yacht?

Discussion in 'General Yachting Discussion' started by Mark Woglom, Feb 2, 2011.

Page 3 of 3
  1. NYCAP123, Feb 11, 2011
    #41
    NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2008
    Messages:
    11,209
    Location:
    Long Island, NY
    That is a very true statement. Sea Ray is not the fanciest boat, nor designed to take on the world, but they're designs do well for their customers. When you put out that many boats you have to learn something. I've always considered Sea Rays the Chevrolet of boating. It's not the fanciest, nor the most expensive, but they always did their job well. Not to make light of construction standards, but I think what most yachtsmen don't like about them is that there's another just like it down the dock. Many people will buy a passage maker when all they need is a coastal cruiser. That's overkill. I'm personally not a fan of Carver, but they're good for what their built for.
  2. Mark Woglom, Feb 11, 2011
    #42
    Mark Woglom

    Mark Woglom Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2011
    Messages:
    101
    Location:
    Live in Gilford NH. Boat in Sarasota winters, New
    Good advice, and I'm getting there. A Sea Ray 550/580 Sedan bridge is on my short list. An Azimut 55E is also on my short list.

    Things I like about the Azimut:
    1. Removable Bimini on the flybridge (I sometimes like to be in the sun)
    2. 2nd helm station down below (when it's cold/rainy, and there is no sun!)
    3. Tender on the flybridge in lieu of the swim platform
    4. The looks
    5. No bunk bed in the 3rd cabin

    Things I don't like about the Azimut:
    1. More expensive
    2. Concerns about Azimut quality from people on this forum. I want to find some owners to speak with, to get some first hand comments on what breaks.
    3. Limited service network, and possible issues getting parts

    Things I like about the Sea Ray.
    1. There are dealers all around the country (even one in my home town)
    2. Priced closer to what I should be spending
    3. Limited teak (like the looks ... hate the maintenance)
    4. Better galley layout
    5. More likely to have conventional systems with readily available parts.

    Things I don't like about the Sea Ray:
    1. Doesn't have the things I like about the Azimut.

    All this being said, I've only been internet shopping so far. I am looking at a 550 in New England the week after next. I'm going to FL early next month, and plan to look at a fairly wide variety of boats, including Azimut, Fairline, Sunseeker, and Viking. I like the Hatteras 63, but I think it is probably just too much boat, both in terms of size and price.

    I really don't want/need a boat that turns out to be a headache, so Sea Ray may well win out, unless I can hear some good things about Azimut maintenance, or I find something else that catches my eye when I see it in person.

    I was hoping to go to the Miami Brokerage show next week, but I had already made conflicting travel plans, so I'll just have to bounce around southern FL.

    Thanks for all the advice.
  3. GFC, Feb 11, 2011
    #43
    GFC

    GFC Senior Member

    Joined:
    May 21, 2008
    Messages:
    221
    Location:
    Tri Cities, WA
    Mark, having a dealer right in my home town would seal the deal for me. We don't have any dealers where I live and that's one thing I'd just about kill for.

    Any boat you buy will give rise to a million questions/concerns. The availability of a dealer you can drive across town to would be priceless.

    As to my 550, the things I like:
    -Cat diessels
    -upper and lower helms (we boat all winter so the inside helm is nice to have)
    -relatively easy access to both sides of the engines
    -tons of storage
    -nice layout in the cabin--it's flat from the cockpit to the steps leading down to the staterooms.
    -large flybridge with lots of seating--that is where everyone gathers when we're on the boat.
    -having the helm forward on the flybridge offers excellent forward visibility.
    -large lazarette is easy to access and has lots of storage.

    Things I don't like:
    -diesel fuel prices
    -with the rear bimini I added I can't see the stern.

    My "office"...

    BTW, a few people have mentioned the issue of communications between the skipper and deck hand. My wife and I solved this issue by buying a pair of headsets that are voice activated and both of us can talk at the same time. This helps when we're docking or in a lock. When she's on the walkway I can't see her so it's nice to be able to talk to each other without having to yell back and forth. This shot was taken inside one of the locks on the Columbia River on our trip bringing the boat home.

    Attached Files:

  4. NYCAP123, Feb 11, 2011
    #44
    NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2008
    Messages:
    11,209
    Location:
    Long Island, NY
    Mark, People who have large amounts of money invested in a boat almost always think it's the best. Talk with former owners and captains to get an unbiased opinion.
  5. Mark Woglom, Feb 11, 2011
    #45
    Mark Woglom

    Mark Woglom Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2011
    Messages:
    101
    Location:
    Live in Gilford NH. Boat in Sarasota winters, New
    Well, it's not quite THAT good. I live on a lake, where I run my Formula 370 Supersport. I'm going to keep the Formula, and the new boat will be an ocean boat. I'd look a little silly on our lake with something 50+ feet, nad I'd have to have the diesel trucked to the lake! That being said, wherever I do my ocean boating, a Sea Ray dealer can't be too far away.
    You must have a slightly older model than I have been looking at. I've been looking at boats newer than 2000, and the newer 550/580 models have the flybridge seating in front of the helm. I actually like that, because I can be part of the conversation without turning around. Obviously, pluses and minuses both ways.

    Also, the newer models have MAN diesels. CAT strikes me as a good name. Not sure of the difference. Will this be a Chevy pickup vs Ford pickup argument?

    I do really like the idea of a lower helm, so maybe I'll investigate older models as well.

    Great idea, but going to be a tough sell with my wife! I fly my own plane, and I can't even get her to wear a headset in that! Besides, I'd be inclined to try to get her one without a microphone, and that would create other issues.

    (I'm joking of course .... my wife is great ...and we honestly never argue. I just don't suspect she'll put something on her head unless it is sprayed on)
  6. YachtForums, Feb 11, 2011
    #46
    YachtForums

    YachtForums Administrator

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2002
    Messages:
    20,766
    Location:
    South Florida
    Go First Class,

    I have removed the hyperlinked images of your office and your wife. We don't allow them. I have reduced the size of these pics and attached them to your post. Please don't hyperlink images in the future, because the host can change the image to something less pretty than your wife.

    Thanks
  7. Mark Woglom, Feb 11, 2011
    #47
    Mark Woglom

    Mark Woglom Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2011
    Messages:
    101
    Location:
    Live in Gilford NH. Boat in Sarasota winters, New
    I agree with what you are saying, to a point. I recognize that people generally try to justify their purchase decisions. Conversely, people can sometimes be overly critical of the purchase decisions of others.

    Sometimes a brand's early reputation is deservedly poor, but the brand improves with time. In that instance, it can be tough to get rid of prejudices that were created early on, particularly with people who have been in an industry for a long time. I'm not saying that's the case with Azimut, but I did hear that from one person.

    I think it is good to hear both perspectives. I suspect I can find happy Azimut owners who traded up the line, and I suspect I can find unhappy owners who would never buy an Azimut again.

    Also, boat manufacturer quality can get better/worse with time. In the early 80's, I worked at a marina that sold Formula's. At the time, I believe I could clearly see a difference in quality between Formula and Sea Ray, with Formula being clearly better. (Fiberglass cockpits, welded rails, solid windshield framing, etc) Today, I'd be hard pressed to see much difference between the 2 brands.

    My ears are wide open, and I've read most every post on this forum relative to Azimut quality. A lot of the posts are generic in nature, and say things like "the wiring is bad", or "parts take forever to obtain". I'd like to speak with a few people who have significant first hand experience with 3-6 year old Azimut boats. If I hear a lot of badmouthing after that, I'll rule out Azimut.

    I'd love to have anybody with first hand experience contact me. Feel free to send me a PM, and I'll give you a call.
  8. Capt J, Feb 12, 2011
    #48
    Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2005
    Messages:
    14,736
    Location:
    Fort Lauderdale
    Here's the thing. With Azimuts and Feretti's (I believe), all of the electrical and all of the interior is sub-contracted. And each one has different contractors doing those items, so each one is different. They usually handle well and are built strong structurally though.
    I have managed/ran 4 of them in that age range 3-6 years old. Initially a 1999 70' Seajet in 2005. I've managed 2 different 68' Plus both 2001's, and I also managed a 2004 50' Azimut. Where do you want me to start?

    The exhaust compensators (I think that's what they're called), had to be ordered from Italy and changed in all 4 boats. The part that connects the engine riser to the boats exhaust. The 50' Azimut they were 2 years old and had 240 hours when 1 failed.

    The 70's Seajet, none of the wiring lined up with the drawings. The removable ceiling panels in the entire boat were not removable to access various things because they built the joinery OVER the ceiling panels. Numerous electrical issues. Fueling the boat was a 3+ hour experience because 2/3 of the fuel had to be gravity fed to the 2 other tanks through a very small crossover pipe.

    On 1 68' plus they had all of the electrical relays, solenoids, and wiring mounted in the exterior storage compartment on the aft deck that was not waterproof or anything. The other 68' had them located elsewhere. The flybridge gauge pod would fill with water on both boats and start shorting gauges out. Numerous water leaks from FB into salon on both boats. Many false alarms, and electrical issues.

    The 50' had a lot of issues as well......the gelcoat underneath all of the flybridge cushions bubbled, and the president of Azimut North America told me that I should have removed all of the cushions from the flybridge when not using the boat. (They were so big you couldn't even fit them in the salon and needed 2 people to get them down from the bridge). The steering linkage was rubbing on the lazarette support from the factory. False Alarms. Grey water pump took 2 months to get the right one. The stainless screws on the rubrail were all bleeding rust and not properly bedded.

    Parts like aft deck light lens, plastic exterior hatch latches, and other wear items require photo's, metric measurements, have to be ordered from Italy and may take a month to get and you have a 50% chance of recieving the correct one.

    I'm tired and these are just a few issues I saw, e-mail me if you want more info.
Page 3 of 3