US Customs deporting crew at FLIBS

No I am not remotely suggesting that Americans do not work on Foreign Flagged vessels! Where did you come up with that?

Probably here if those docks are on American soil:

Those jobs belong to Americans or those legally eligible for work in this country. I've got a feeling I'd run into the same thing (or worse) if I were to walk the docks looking for work on many foreign shores. Of course those yachts are free to hire whomever they wish by arranging proper visas or hiring locals in ports they visit.

NYCAP123 Have you ever left the USA and attempted to work overseas in the yachting world or employed crew in Europe. And NO you will not run into the same or worse immigration issues in Europe. Let me explain to you how Europe works regarding work visas for South Africa, Australians, New Zealanders and Americans and many other non European citizens that are in the Yachting industry.
Lets say you apply for a French woking visa to join a yacht you will only be able to work in France, so if you join a yacht in France and you travel to Italy, Spain, Portugal, Netherlands, Germany, UK, Sweden or any other European country you can reach with a boat you will be working illegally as that visa is only for that country that you applied for. I am a resident in Spain and as a resident i am only allowed to work in Spain. Only european citizens can work in the rest of Europe but they have to register with that country when they work there, so that they can pay taxes. So to sum it up you cannot get work visa for every country and even when you are a European citizen you have to register with the country you intend to work in by European law.

I just hope that you never find yourself in Europe with a boat looking for crew because you might have to employ a non European citizen and then you will be braking the law.

Hi,

How do the flag wavers here see Non US Persons working on US Flag vessels that are outside the territorial waters?

I can't speak for the "flag wavers" but for what it's worth, the USCG recently closed the comment period on proposal to "recognize" foreign STCW certificates. This proposal is based on what some moron in the CG believes is an STCW requirement that foreign seafarers must be employed on US vessels.

My personal take on the issue is that the anti-Jones Act crowd has bought an admiral or two and is looking for a run around to eliminate American seafarers from international shipping. This would in effect, establish a "second register" where an American flag ship could be crewed by lower cost foreign seafarers and still make American port calls.

It is a very sensitive issue here since there are many existing laws which prohibit that practice and overturning them would mean a huge sea change in American immigration and labor laws. The proposed changes would virtually destroy the American merchant marine and the loss of seafarers would mean that manning those taxpayer owned ships reserved for military purposes would be impossible.

The Gulf of Mexico fleet of support ships has already seen companies obtaining exemptions to existing citizen manning laws based on claims that no American seafarers are available to fill the positions. There is no government agency assigned responsibility to investigate those claims and there is no procedure for an American seafarer to contest the issuance of a waiver. The CG has allowed this practice for many years and the feeling among among both brown and blue water American seafarers is that the same group that purchased those indulgences is behind this latest debauchery.

K1W1, you are in a good place to inquire, ask around how this has worked out for German merchant mariners.

Hi,

I have heard a bit through the mooring lines that while the majority of the Inland Waterways vessels are pretty much immune to the influx owing to who they are and how they operate, the same doesn't apply to the big Container operators.

Some of the big boys are still recruiting and training those they hope will fill senior positions it is well known that there are a lot of the lesser rank positions being filled by Eastern Europeans, this great increase in the Crew Pool is made easier now many have become EU Citizens by some whimsical EU Border broadening.

I don't often get to say this, but Marmot...Well put. Keep that in the public eye.
GrahamF, the key words in your post are "Lets say you apply for a French woking visa". The crux of this thread is that the people supposedly detained for deportation did NOT have the papers to legally apply for work in this country. And no, I have not attempted to find employment outside the US. In fact, I considered moving to certain other countries over the years. Trouble is that I can't afford to be a gentleman of leisure and I wouldn't consider illegally taking a job away from a native.

Carl i hope what i am doing is ok. If not please do what you do best.

Here is some info that i found on Dockwalk regarding B1/B2 Visa. For those who dont read the Dockwalk, here is what has been written by a Lawyer that deals with Immigration issues.

To work on a yacht in U.S. waters, you will need a visa if you are not a U.S. citizen or legal permanent resident (Green Card holder). Ideally, you should apply in advance for a B1, the same visa issued to business visitors. Each entry on the B1 can be issued for up to six months.

Suppose you are French or Swedish and on your last trip you did not need a visa to visit the United States. This type of admission – called a Visa Waiver – that admitted you for up to 90 days does you no good at all for working on a yacht. If you are here on a Visa Waiver and by chance you find a job on a cruising megayacht while in Ft. Lauderdale or San Diego, you should immediately fly to your home country or the nearest foreign country (usually Barbados for East Coast crew) that will let you apply for a B1 visa and then fly back to join your yacht. Hopefully, your captain has not gotten tired of waiting and left without you.

The B1 rules for yacht crew sound simple enough:

“Members of the crew of a private yacht sailing out of a foreign port which will be cruising in U.S. waters for more than 29 days may be documented with B1 visas if they establish that they have a residence abroad which they do not intend to abandon and are otherwise qualified.”

So far so good. But consider these qualifiers:

1. The yacht must be a private yacht. It cannot entertain paying guests. It must be maintained for charter and/or solely for the pleasure of its owner.

2. Cruising for more than 29 days in U.S. waters does not mean multiple long weekend trips from Fr. Lauderdale to the Bahamas and back. Be prepared: you will be asked at the U.S. Embassy for the yacht’s planned cruising itinerary in U.S. waters when applying for the B1 visa.

3. No dayworking

4. “Sailing out of a foreign port” means that the home port must be foreign, as shown by: slip fees, yacht club membership, amount of time spent there, taxes paid, etc. There is no clear rule.

5. Don’t be fooled, however, by the “foreign flag” flying from the stern. Which flag the ship flies is not determinative and not mentioned in the B-1 rules. A megayacht registered in Liberia and docked 11 months a year in Ft. Lauderdale is not “sailing out of a foreign port” and will not qualify to hire foreign yacht crew. A U.S.-flagged yacht that spends eight months a year in Cannes, France does sail out of a foreign port when it cruises during the winter in Florida; and the U.S. owner will be able to keep his French crew while in the U.S. on B1 visas.

6. Your “home port” as crew must also be overseas. Be prepared to show that you pay taxes somewhere else, own a foreign residence or rent one; and have strong ties to a country other than the U.S. If you don’t have a foreign residence to go back to when the sailing season is over, you may not be admitted or be allowed to stay year after year in B1 status. Remember: as foreign yacht crew you are still only “visiting” the United States.

7. Source of payment: This can trip up many foreign crew. It does not matter that that the captain and owner are American. You cannot get paid unless payment comes from a foreign source, ideally from a foreign company or from a foreign bank account and deposited directly in your foreign bank account. B1 yacht crew cannot receive a U.S. payroll check without violating his/her status and risking removal and loss of the visa.

8. Plan ahead. Do not expect your visa to be issued the day you apply. Check waiting times at the U.S. Consulates. Consider applying for a combination B1/B2 Visa so when you are not working, you can be “just visiting” on the B2 and keeping an eye out for the next berth.


If crew and the yacht owner, crew agency and captain respect these basic rules, foreign crew can use the B1 foreign yacht crew visa to their advantage.


Eliot Norman is a partner in the Immigration Practice Group at Williams Mullen, a full-service corporate law firm. He regularly advises yacht owners and management companies on visa rules for foreign crew. For more information: enorman@williamsmullen.com. 804.420.6482.

Regarding point 5, I believe a couple of words are missing causing it to be an apples to oranges comparrison:
5. Don’t be fooled, however, by the “foreign flag” flying from the stern. Which flag the ship flies is not determinative and not mentioned in the B-1 rules. A megayacht registered in Liberia and docked 11 months a year in Ft. Lauderdale is not “sailing out of a foreign port” and will not qualify to hire undocumented foreign yacht crew while in U.S. waters. A U.S.-flagged yacht that spends eight months a year in Cannes, France does sail out of a foreign port when it cruises during the winter in Florida; and the U.S. owner will be able to keep his French crew while in the U.S. on B1 visas. However he will not be permitted to hire undocumented workers while in U.S. waters. I believe properly documented foreign workers are welcome to hire onto either vessel in U.S. waters.